need your expertise- help us be poor!

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Need your expertise- help us be poor!

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amother

Brown

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:13 pm

Just wondering... Anyone else ever done this? We have had our kids on public school.We are considering moving then to a Jewish school. Even with tuition breaks, it appears that we will go from being ' comfortable' to very poor.

As in, suddenly we won't be able to buy shoes (as it is the kids only have one pair shoes, one pair sandals) we will only be able to eat meat on Shabbat. And probably only rice and veg during the week. There will be nothing at all for extras of any kind. No heat in winter. People used to live like this for the sake of Torah. Anyone Suddenly doing it now?

How do you get used to it?

How do you make sure the kids don't resent it?

smss

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:18 pm

If that is truly what the situation would be, I would ask a rav before doing this. You may be ok with this, but your kids may not be, and in the long run it may c"v be worse for their Yiddishkeit than the current situation is.

smss

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:19 pm

Maybe a better thread would be: help me brainstorm ways to afford sending my kids to a Jewish school. Perhaps there are ideas you haven't thought of.

Laiya

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:21 pm

I think you need to explain this to the tuition committee.

I'm pretty sure that there are families paying less than you (not even knowing who or where you are, I'm still pretty sure), and maintaining a higher standard of living than the one you described.

yenny

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:21 pm

Im in awe.
May haShem grant you everything you need without having to resort to povery.

Amarante

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:32 pm

There are degrees of poverty but you are describing an almost Dickensian scenario if you can't afford heat and your children wouldn't have shoes.

Resentment is a term a normal child might feel for not being able to buy nicer things but you are describing bone crushing poverty that is beyond emotional discomfort.

amother

Brown

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:04 pm

Op thanks for all the responses.

I agree, it sounds ridiculous to me too. We are MO moving to the right, and want our kids out of PS. Only really 2 schools where we are. MO, which would charge about 55% of our income for fees, even with a discount, and another which would charge less. (we spend more than 40% on housing and there is no real easy to reduce this). the less charging one has had 3 people I know from MO families pull their kids out JUST THIS YEAR because although they are good at teaching Torah, seems to be a lot of behavioral (is derech eretz) issues. Also I know of at least 2 OTHER families from PS who moved there child there on very good financial terms but they only lasted a couple of terms before they either left or were thrown out * not sure if the exact story, but again it was over behavioral issues that were not occurring in PS).

There are a lot of reasons I want them out of PS....

I keep thinking about people who in Europe lived in abject poverty for the sake of Torah. And people who moved to the US and kept on keeping Shabbat despite losing their job every week.
Our scenario is really no worse than than, but to be honest I don't think I could do it..... That's why I asked for your help. Guess people on that kind poverty don't have the internet!

Is there anyone who has done this?

Our has anyone got a better idea?

I am trying to ask a rav, but not someone from here (we sort of don't really have a rav).

(on these figures it's looks impossible but the important factor is youngest will start school next year so I should be able to get some work- but will need to be school hours as one of my kids has special needs and I need to be home the them after school so not sure how much I can realistically make.....)

Seems ridiculous to be even considering it actually..

WWYD?

naturalmom5

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:36 pm

I was in the same position as you.. I would suggest you either move somewhere that's more affordable with better schools.

Or homeschool and hire a rebbe. My experience with my own children as well as friends is that kids that grow up in very happy,loving, sincere homes grow in yiddishkeit, even if they are in PS. Kids that grow up going to the "best" yeshivas , but have parents that are just into phony frum shtick, often go OTD. Don't punish your children or make them miserable.. PS with a good rebbe on the side is more "darchecha darchi noam"

seeker

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:38 pm

In Europe a hundred or two years ago, abject poverty was a thing. Now it isn't. If we know more about the situation that is leading you to this plan, maybe we can offer other ideas. You taking on some job sounds like a good start. Even a part time job could cover things like shoes and heat. Can you move to an area with lower cost of living? Are there different schools you would consider? You say you are moving to the right, so maybe a more right wing school? Is there a chabad school in your area? Can you post a location and profession so we can help brainstorm?

amother

Brown

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:57 pm

Thanks everyone.
Location- not on US (our Israel, obviously). Can't be more specific than that.
The cheaper school is the Chabad one. I'm scared it world do more harm than good. No other schools.

DH is not having the same cosmic shift as me, and as our families have been here for more than 3 generations, very hard to move (DH won't want to).

Profession... It's a long story but none to speak of really.

We have been doing the PS-tutor thing until now, but I feel it is not enough, and as kids get older it's harder to motivate them. The PS is a good one with lots of(secular) Jewish kids, but it is not as good as out used to be when we first started. Also tutors keep making aliyah! (so should we but I don't want to split up family). Also dh had no Hebrew so not so easy to get work there either

I keep telling myself HKBH knows the whole story....(even better than me!)

Yiyhe beseder... Just wish I knew what to do 😃

seeker

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:59 pm

It's painful and easier said than done but sometimes you do need to leave your family/homeland for the sake of your nuclear family - you and your children and the future you want from them.
Hope you gain clarity and some good ideas.
:hugs:

amother

Brown

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:09 am

Seeker I know what you mean- I lived in Israel before I was married. When I say I didn't want to split the family I was referring to the fact that DH would not want to move. I don't think HKBH wants us to get divorced over this!!!!

5mom

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:19 am

Is dh ok with public school? I get the sense that you are not on the same page about a number of things. I can't imagine that he'd be willing to tolerate privation for himself or the children to pay for day school if he doesn't want to send there in the first place.

I agree with other posters that you should let the school know what tuition will do to your budget. And that you need to think about the long term. You may not be able to stay where you are and send to day school. Which means more to you?

amother

Brown

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:30 am

Dh wants them out of the school as well. We feel like we have no options. We realize we are trying to do something impossible... The thing is if you move you will have other problems. Anyone know a rav to ask this sort of question ?

mirror

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:38 am

In my elementary school, the mothers who can't afford tuition always worked in the school.

nywife

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 7:07 am

OP I'm assuming you looked into Hebrew charter schools in/around your area? Or weighed the possibility of keeping them in PS with an after school tutor? Or weighed the possibility of moving to a location with cheaper tuition?
If all the above ideas don't apply, please talk this over with a Rav and maybe even a child therapist. To go from being comfortable to living with little is very very difficult for a child. Especially because they generally value heat over education.
Good luck to you, I hope it works out.

Raisin

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 7:25 am

How about sending your older kid(s) to the Jewish school and keeping your younger kid(s) in public school. Hopefully once you start working your financial situation will improve.

amother

Brown

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 8:10 am

This is op. Thanks to everyone who has replied. Thanks for the suggestions. Thanks for the bracha that we should not know poverty.

I suppose I was really originally asking for tips of how to save money. As we are now, I feel like I don't need to worry about money. I mean, we have everything we want. Part if that is limiting wants though. Like we only go away once every few years. And then only locally. We don't eat out, or spend money on things like movies except very rarely (2-3 times a year). But I never worry about food or nor being able to pay a doctors bills. We buy nosh food for Shabbat and sometimes during the week. We eat meat during the week (not every day). If the kids shoes wear out, were buy more. If the plumbing needs fixing we fix it. Other people Don't live like that. All of these things are a question for them. I was wondering how you do it. And if we lost 55% of our income. When 40% already goes on housing.... Well that's not much left while you're still just"hoping" for a secure income.

The idea to only move some kids is a good one. Very hard to know how to prioritize.

But I guess I was mainly feeling very guilty that I did not want to put ourselves in poverty. Thought that I SHOULD. That it was the Chevy correct torah way. Now I feel that my negative feelings about doing that have been validated. Thanks ladies! Would still like to discuss with a Rav if sometime could suggest one.

Time to work on being sameach bchelko. Shana tova to all.

zigi

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 8:54 am

can you put money away each month for a rainy day fund. not the full amount but if something happens you can cover it. same thing with shoes and clothes for the kids. plan that you will need to make the purchase. and budget accordingly. slowly adjust the waY you eat. instead of a steak each make a stir fry or stew. then you are eating meat but not as much per person.

SRS

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:51 pm

OP, it is hard to address your question not knowing where you live and the culture. But, that aside, it sounds like you are already stretched. Based on that, I don't know if transferring your children to a private school is in their best interests. Having the ability to buy shoes (not highly expensive shoes of the latest trend, but shoes) and having the ability to make people comfortable by turning on the heat is pretty basic. It is nice to say tuition should come before all else, but I just can't see how impoverishing a family to this extent will be a long term win-win.

Besides that, it seems like you are living frugally, have a housing issue, and need to figure out how to increase income to afford tuition. This is probably not want you want to hear and I'm not sure it is possible. I like the idea of not moving everyone at once and only biting off what you can manage.

Hugs.

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