A child who is "asking for it"

amother

Cobalt

Tue, Sep 29 2015, 11:01 pm

Before I was a parent, I really wanted to save "potches" for rare, and occasions of danger, chutzpah or blatant disobedience--if at all, because hitting breeds more hitting. Now HaShem has blessed me with a 3 year-old, middle-child that just seems to do everything possible to push buttons--scream, hit me, bite and bother his siblings, run away, and sometimes just doesn't budge from his spot when we have to get going. Often its because his stomach is acting up, but there are times that he is trying to be manipulative and I just don't know of any other recourse. I don't really have a reliable "time-out" corner (we're in a small apartment and any place I put him, he can get out of, we dont really have a separate room for kids, or I would use that), and being stern with him and saying "the answer is NO" doesn't phase him and he'll do something anyway. He does things that REALLY get to me and my husband. What do I do?

I should add that I really and honestly try to give him positive attention, but it seems that the negative interactions are out-numbering the positive interactions lately, and its become very challenging. When he's in a good mood, he runs off and plays like nothing happened.

chani8

Wed, Sep 30 2015, 2:12 am

Become a proactive parent, not reactive. Guide your child to do what you want him to do, rather than punish. You don't need to punish.

His biting and hurting may be speech related. Does he have a speech delay? Teach him language. Tell him, "Don't bite, instead, tell your brother, "Don't!" or "No!" as loud as you can. You are allowed to yell, but not allowed to hurt."

Hitting and biting is a result of serious frustration in a child (that age). Lower his frustration level. Make life happier for him. Give him more attention. Give him space to play, away from other children (who bother him).

If he is seriously over-angry in your opinion, and this is a change in his behavior from the past, assess whether he's getting abused in any way.

seeker

Wed, Sep 30 2015, 2:14 am

What's this about his stomach acting up? Perhaps he needs to be on a different diet that may help him do less "button pushing" and more functioning. Pardon if I'm barking up the wrong tree but I just read "Cure Your Child With Food" and it's gotten to me. My family is right now guarding all the gluten and sugar in the house out of fear that I am about to do something drastic.

I have heard of using your very worst punishment (and if that's a potch, so be it) to reinforce time out. Sure he COULD get out of any time out spot, but the point of time out is for the kid to stay there and not by force. If they learn that leaving time out is worse than staying in it, then they will stay. However this is a pretty punitive approach. Just putting it out there in case you were really looking for what the books say on how to keep kids in time out.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Sep 30 2015, 3:39 am

seeker wrote:

The diet thing makes sense. As soon as you said "stomach", my first thought was food allergies. My brother used to be a total terror, until my mom found out that he was allerlgic to whole wheat and all citrus. We could always tell when a substitute teacher gave him graham crackers instead of saltines for a snack (as per instructions!), because he would come home, destroy the house, scream and cry for hours, and then collapse in a heap. Once the offending foods were out of his system, he was a totally sweet kid who wanted to do nothing but make people happy.

amother

Cobalt

Wed, Sep 30 2015, 6:26 pm

Op here, what all of you are advising--was exactly my philosophy, however I've found it very hard to put into practice--100% of the time. Of COURSE I have given him language, I have been stern with him, try my best to be consistent with rules and discipline (I'm a big believer of "natural consequences". I keep redirecting him, I try to hug him and cuddle him--but often when he's in one of his "moods" he just wiggles away. Then there are times it reaches a crescendo after all that I have tried and sometimes just I'm left with no other options--like the 3rd time he's knocked his sister over in 5 minutes so that she hit her head, or 2nd time he's bitten his brother--hard, unprovoked, or tried to run out of the house, or he threw my husband's only aravos on the floor erev yom tov during a tantrum. When it happens it's only one quick patch, and it's still a "last resort" and I really try to not give a "patch" as a punishment for hitting me. Of course I talk to him afterwards and tell him how mommy loves him and that it hurts mommy when he doesn't listen. I used to use it as a mere threat--not wanting to carry through hoping that he would change his behavior, now that I've had to carry through a few times, the threat DOES seem to be working, but I'm not happy where things have gone.

Regarding his diet, he has no other symptoms, I've been to an allergist, was told without other symptoms its like throwing darts in the milky way (scratch tests can lead to a lot of fall positives). He's been tested for celiac--negative, I've taken him to 2 different GIs with less than impressive results, tried different homeopathic remedies to calm his stomach--which I've seen more impressive results than taking him to a GI (though the hypothesis I've come up with the Dr. did say we can try--but its invasive on a child so young, he also thought there was a behavioral component to it). I've monitored his diet and haven't seen any discernable pattern to which I wouldn't know where to START with an elimination diet. We've already taken lactose out of his diet--hasn't helped.

And it's not just this month--it's been escalating for the past several months.

seeker

Wed, Sep 30 2015, 10:43 pm

Elimination diet is the only way to know, allergy testing only reveals allergies which work with a specific autoimmune response, but doesn't say anything about other sensitivities. Same for celiac testing, it's very unreliable. The big culprits are often gluten and/or casein so that would be where to start. According to the Cure Your Child book, if you don't see any improvement within 4-6 weeks or so then you haven't quite gotten it yet (though it could just mean more than one thing needs adjustment)

It also sounds like there may be room to firm up your discipline approach. Sorry but from what you're describing it sounds like you have a lot of nice ideas but are kind of in between all of them. For example, giving a threat while hoping not to have to follow through - never going to work that way. You need to mean it. They will always know. And if it's the third time in 5 minutes hitting the sister or whatever it was, then whatever consequences/intervention/response/love/whatever was supposed to address that, didn't happen fast enough - once is more than enough. And the mussar shmooze involving your love for him and pain about not listening is just plain confusing at this age. Not that I have it any better myself, I'm just pointing out some things that show room to tighten the ship, one way or another.

pause

Wed, Sep 30 2015, 10:50 pm

chani8 wrote:

And really, I wish you'd change the title of this thread, because no child is ever 'asking for it'. G-d forbid anyone should think that way or even speak that way.

Never hit a child. Spanking is hitting. Only losers spank. When I spanked, I was a loser, too. Be a winner! Be the best.mom.ever and never spank your child. Control him, restrain him, guard him, but dont hit.

That was my immediate reaction as well. Since when do children ask for it? I once heard a speaker say (about young children) that there are no bad children, only hungry children, tired children, etc. IOW, there's something bothering a child who is acting so out of character.

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Sep 30 2015, 10:54 pm

chani8 wrote:

I had to give you a" personal" hug!
Thank you for saying it so beautifully Hug

seeker

Wed, Sep 30 2015, 11:02 pm

Oh come on, I'm very into positive, gentle, compassionate parenting but don't we all know what it means when we say a kid is "asking for it"? Doesn't mean we need to give them exactly what they ask for, but sometimes they really ARE asking for it - some very noteworthy behavioral theories posit that they are testing limits (I.e. ASKING FOR limits/consequences to help them learn what is acceptable) or that people (including but not only children) will often attempt to trigger in you whatever it is that they are feeling (I.e. ASKING FOR you to get angry because they are angry) just for example.

cookiecutter

Thu, Oct 01 2015, 12:22 am

seeker wrote:

I certainly know what asking for it means but I would never just give it to him. You wouldn't give your kid ice cream just because he asks for it; why would you hit or yell at him?

flowerpower

Thu, Oct 01 2015, 12:27 am

Seems to me that he may be acting out because he has a food issue. Certain foods that hurt the stomach can make him act out. Look into it. Also, he may benefit from certain vitamins. I found that when you work on being positive-focusing on the good things that he does and semi ignoring the negative things makes a huge difference. He will see that he gets more attention from being good rather than acting out.

seeker

Thu, Oct 01 2015, 12:28 am

cookiecutter wrote:

I certainly know what asking for it means but I would never just give it to him. You wouldn't give your kid ice cream just because he asks for it; why would you hit or yell at him?

That's exactly what I said - You don't need to give it to them, but we all know what it means "asking for it." People are jumping down OP's throat here over the fact that she even said her kid is "asking for it." Yeesh. Focus, people! The point is to help OP give her kid what he needs rather than what he's "asking for" but why are people picking on her for saying he's asking for it? It's a figure of speech. Get over it.

chani8

Thu, Oct 01 2015, 3:44 am

It's a very old, outdated, ugly 'victim blaming' term, Seeker. We were not jumping down her throat. We were educating her, nicely in fact.

But I agree, enough said, and let's move back On Topic.

A child with tummy trouble and extreme anger is setting off my alarms. When my son was 3, he started pooping in his pants and had extreme anger problems, too. It took us years to get to the bottom of it all. He had been molested.

There is a serious epidemic these days, of boys molesting boys, so please check this possibility out with your son, OP.