Ashkenazi/Persian Wedding HELP!!!

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2cents

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 3:25 pm

amother wrote:

Instead of asking on imamother questions I would suggest you to call your Rav or sons Rebbi and discuss with him about the aufruf and walking down the aisle etc.
The girl will be taking on your sons minhagim after they are married.

Keyword is "after" they are married. I don't think it's a great way to start a marriage, by consulting one side's rav and 'laying down the law' as to what will happen at the wedding. These are customs, not halachic minhagim (unlike 6 hrs or 3 hrs after meat, and unlike rice in pesach, which are halachic in nature), and a compromise can easily be reached.

2cents

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 3:29 pm

DrMom wrote:

Why don't you just google "Persian Jewish wedding customs?" This doesn't need to be so perplexing.

Op would get so many irrelevant ideas that it would probably confuse her more. I've been to many yeshivishe persian weddings and to even more not frum super fancy long island persian weddings, and a lot of what the op says is news to me. It really depends on what the 'amercianized' norm is where the girl's family lives.

amother

Papaya

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 6:15 pm

What I found online was complaints about the cost of over the top Persian weddings.

amother

Orange

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 6:20 pm

substitute "persian" for...pick your adjective

so like any wedding make your budget and stick to your budget and tell the other side that's your budget...

OOTBubby

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 8:27 pm

To OP:

Why don't you write down a list of all parts of the chasunah and next to each list what you are expecting to happen (and who you expect to pay for) for each part. Then share the list with the mechutonim and your son (in writing) for the comments and to see if they agree. Get each step written down so there won't be any surprises.

amother

Beige

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 12:02 am

A few points...

Your son's (and likely your family's) Rav will likely not be ok with Persian dancing. I am Ashkenazi but have been to many Persian weddings. The women's dancing is quite demonstrative I guess you can call it. Lots of trilling and vocalization, which hurts my ears. Lots of hip swinging and movement of other body parts that is not done in the yeshivish world. Even yeshivish Persian women do it to some extent- it is highly cultural. Maybe see if yo can do the Ashkenazi dancing first and then by dessert do sefardi?especially since sefardim tend to stay towards the end of weddings and they also tend to end later.

Timing. Super important. I know someone who had two sets of invites made up- one for ashkenazim and one for sefardim. The sefardim were told to arrive an hour or so before everyone else. it was a mixed marriage I believe. You don't want all the Ashkenazim waiting around for bedeken and chuppah because the kallah's grandmother isn't there. Sefardim usually don't arrive on time- their weddings typically happen later in the evening and run until LATE.

While I didn't have a "mixed" marriage of Ashkenazi and sefardi I had one that as a BY FFB marrying a BT so the mesader kedushin gave us a printout of the order of events, kibudim, which kibud is "a greater honor", and more (like don't forget to bring cup to break, a plate to smash etc). A good wedding planner should have something similar or maybe you write one up and ask us imamothers if something is missing.

Write up a description pretending that someone not familiar with a chuppah/chasuna will read it. Not dumbed down, just descriptive.
Describe kabbalas panim: men hold a "tisch" in a separated room as chosson and kalla can't see each other for week before. They drink/eat what? Sing?
Kallah sits on chair (mothers and grandmothers on each side) and friends, family go up individually, wish her well, and get brachos. Food served? Light music playing in background?
Bedeken:
Chuppah:
XYZ walks down (Bubbe, Zaide etc) the aisle.
chosson , wearing a white kittel, walks down the aisle with his parents and stands under the chuppah decorated with flowers. Parents move off to the side.
Kallah's grandparents etc walk Down.
Then just elaborate/continue.

DrMom

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 12:20 am

amother wrote:

Why does the chattan's rav have any say in how the kallah's side dances? Why would he even be looking on the women's side of the mechitzah (assuming there is one)? A great way to get their marriage off to a rocky start is to have your rav boss around the bride's family.

amother

Beige

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 1:29 am

What I meant was that while the Rav doesn't have a say, it is important that the guests need to feel comfortable. I wasn't at one wedding I went to. We actually left.
And the men danced like that too...

ally

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 1:54 am

amother wrote:

The role of the guest is to enhance the simcha. Not have their cultural closed mindedness pandered to

Sadie

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 2:03 am

ally wrote:

The role of the guest is to enhance the simcha. Not have their cultural closed mindedness pandered to

Wow, seriously! Yeah, as a guest you are free to go or not go to a wedding based on feeling uncomfortable with the culture, however unfortunate that may be.

But when you are marrying with another culture you need to be more openminded than that (which it sounds like OP is)

amother

Oak

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 3:55 am

OP, I'm sorry you're struggling.

My advice would be to ask their Rov how a typical Persian ceremony works. Then discuss it with the other side and come up with the combo of ideas that works for all of you.

Regarding what your family thinks : two options spring go mind. One is to tell them the order of play before the wedding eg we'll be having tea first, the buffet will pop up later; the other is to leave notes on every seat explaining to guests the cultural blend you've all agreed on eg as in ashki custom, the bride and groom will....etc.

Someone once said to me "Where's the simcha in simcha? Everyone's stressed out - the people making it and the people making all their arrangements to attend it!" LOL

But I still say...may we only share simchos Very Happy

amother

Oak

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 4:05 am

OP, if they do the same as Iranians - your son had better start practising!

http://www.israelvideonetwork......-see/

amother

Orange

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 5:58 am

Didn't click on the vid and at the risk of sounding too serious I really have to say there is nothing anyone should be laughing at about a holy jewish wedding. A holy Jewish wedding is not "comic relief" chas v'shalom. And these are real people.

Imogen

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 6:16 am

amother wrote:

Wow, the trilling noise you mention is called ululating, a noise to symbolise heightened emotion. So sorry it hurts your ears, it is the noise of joy and happiness. Often it is emitted by the sweetest grandmothers in the room, so proud and happy at that moment.

As for the dancing, ""Even yeshivish Persian women do it" oy vey. This is verging on the comical, I do not know what to say. I write as a boring sheitel wearing grandmother.

I too have been blessed to attend many Persian wedding, the ruach is amazing, from frum Mashhadi to modern Tehrani and all shades inbetween. Op I am excited for you, sort out the details and let this special wedding between two Jewish kids be filled with nachas and simcha.

Sadie

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 6:23 am

sabich wrote:

My MIL ululated when we announced our engagement. She's Egyptian. I thought it was really cool. And she is the apex of tznuah.

Notsobusy

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 8:51 am

amother wrote:

Why wouldn't you feel comfortable. It's a beautiful celebration of a different orthodox Jewish culture. What could be wrong with it? I would love to experience such a wedding.

sourstix

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 12:40 pm

I would love to see such a wedding. I am so curious to see other cultures, please invite me. :) just kidding.

2cents

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 1:26 pm

amother wrote:

Why are you assuming that the kallah's side has to be educated as the "correct" way to have a wedding, and told how things have to be? I'm sure they want their culture incorporated (and if they didn't, I would double check to make sure they're socially normal because people typically will care about their own social norms).

These are not new immigrants, nor are they BT parents from a generation ago who have to be handed scarves to wear and printed, english transliterations and descriptions about how a jewish ceremony is conducted.

As to your descriptions about dancing and 'trilling', it's a matter of perspective. But if you are saying that you have seen otherwise yeshivishe, tznius, 'b'tamt' women dance in this fashion (as I have!), what makes it wrong? Just because you're not used to it?

At my wedding (I was an americanized yeshivishe kallah, my dh a more recent immigrant), I told the band not to have any israeli/sephardic music (dh was not pleased after the wedding...o well), because I knew that all my BY friends and all the yeshiva bochurim in our young circles see that kind of dancing as a kind of Hefker situation, and use it as a reason for 'disco' dancing, and it goes downhill very fast. But for a more cultural wedding, done the way my mother's generation dances, it's not crude, lewd, or lacking in tznius. And that's the way my super sheltered, very naive and innocent, borderline prudish dh saw it as well.

Last edited by 2cents on Mon, Jan 11 2016, 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Papaya

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 2:36 pm

I'm OP:

First off, I LOVED "Amother Oak's" video, and that's exactly what I was talking about at the (non-frum) Persian wedding I attended many years ago. Except that ALL of their relatives (aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters) danced down the aisle doing that. As a wedding guest I loved watching it, but as the chatan's mother it seems a little, well, let's just say too much fun for a wedding processional. Plus I am totally incapable of "lu-lu-lu-ing" no matter how hard I try.

Fortunately for us, the kids want a very Ashkenazi ceremony from the tisch to the breaking of a glass, so all I need to do is figure out who walks with whom and whether he wants to do the walking half way to meet her thing. Great idea and thank you to the Mother who suggested it.

My son is one of the young men you always see in wedding videos doing flips and handstands. (My brother split his pants at his own wedding doing a somersault.) So the party will be take-no-prisoners wild, but not disco dancing. Our rov has this thing he does with balancing stuff like chairs and brooms on his chin, but I will probably freak if anyone starts with fire.

My machatenesteh wanted a Persian DJ but I talked her into an American chassunah-style band that promises to DJ some Persian songs in exchange for a Persian buffet with a few American-style foods.

The kids have the same rov, someone they met in LA, so there will be no arguments there. He is not our family rov, but my son is an adult and it's his life and his wedding.

As far as non-tzniut dancing is concerned, even at the non-frum wedding it looked like the ladies were doing dancing that looked like all they did was stare at their hands like they were the most marvelous things in the world, and switch hands with the beat. Maybe I am naive but I don't expect vulgarity.

tichellady

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 5:26 pm

I recently went to a similar wedding. The brides side walked down in the Persian style ( joyous music and dancing down) and the grooms side walked down in the ashkenazi way. They had ashkenaz plated food but also had a big fruit and Persian fruit and tea display out the whole time. It was a really fun and happy wedding.
I think the biggest issues are time: Persians tend to have very late weddings, everyone comes very late and the food isn't served until after 1 am usually. If you don't want that, they will need to tell their relatives and friends what to expect so they don't miss half the wedding.

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