Help me find myself & my place in Lakewood

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:25 pm

amother wrote:

This may not be practical, but you may do better in a smaller OOT community. I moved OOT from Lakewood and found that there were so many opportunities to make friends. All different types here and everyone is so friendly. A world of a difference...

It may not be an option now, but I am really happy that it worked out for you!

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:28 pm

studying_torah wrote:

Our kids are older, but bh we love the schools, drs, and have amazing neighbors!

Our kids are elementary school age, about half in schools, and for several other reasons we would not be making drastic moves now.

naturalmom5

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:36 pm

For women , I haven't found one yet.let me know if you find one

elderberry, davis, gudz, Adams, Roberts are all very friendly to theme. But intensely
Misogynistic. Think little rascals treehouse

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:49 pm

UQT wrote:

You don't specify what type of neighborhood you live in and if you have friends on the block. Do your kids have friends? Most of my friends are my immediate neighbors who I share car pool and long hours outside on summer afternoons. Winters are definitely more lonely - is that where it is coming from?

I live in a neighborhood which anyone that hears about rolls their eyes and says,"How do you even live there? It's such an awfully cold place".
My kids have friends but they are lower and middle elementary age. Going further they may be as removed from them as I am from their parents. Some are not a desirable influence. Some are nice one day and snobby the next day. Some are nice all around.
My neighbors are my neighbors, not friends (quoting another neighbor here). It seems friendships are not done here.
We might shmooze superficially during summer days but it doesn't go any further. If I move out an equally pleasant shmoozer will move into my place. Here the peak of a relationship is borrowing eggs and exchanging an occasional recipe. Sometimes carpooling. And sending something for a simcha.
To give you an example, I've been going to a class in the neighborhood on a rather regular basis, and then skipped a lot because of being sick repeatedly, for like 2 months. Nobody called, even though we all have each other's numbers. I then bumped into one of the regulars who in the typical local polite manner exclaimed, "We missed you!" I thought to myself, yea, right, for all you care I could've been dead by now - you missed me that much that you never bothered to find out what's going on.
We teach kids in schools about bikur cholim, and calling their friends when they're absent for two days, but then it doesn't apply to adults. The very few local people that call themselves my friends don't know when I'm sick for a long time either. They call once in a blue moon, often for favors.
In terms of winter blues- it recently hit me that if these neighbors didn't become my friends in the 5 years that I've been here it's really time to realize that they are not going to become my friends because of yet another smile I give them, or a short shmooze, or a piece of cake I might send.

UQT wrote:

I work from home so I need some sort of social life even in the dead of the winter. I volunteer for my kids school melave malka which has me connected to a few people during Dec & Jan. I made some good friends that way. One person keeps begging me to volunteer at Deja New - she said there is a terrific crowd there and it's great. I can't commit to something so regular so I haven't done it yet.

I also work from home. Because I care for a few little kids I can't commit on a regular basis, or even run errands for school functions. I try my best to drive girls when they need to go somewhere with their class- that is if I don't have an infant at that time. Over the years I've become friendly with some mothers in one school but it's at the level of chatting at PTA or mother's melave malka once or twice a year. Again, no friends here.
I am hoping to try to get out and try to help at the other school function that's coming up this year. For some reason, this other school I have not been to much because of various circumstances that prevented me from going every other time.
It involves paid babysitting arrangements etc. but these days I don't have a newborn so I might be able to go out for 2 hours or so. Will see if anything comes out of it.

UQT wrote:

I don't know how free you are in general - but I find having one walking partner in the spring and fall helps a lot from feeling isolated. I get a good hour of shmoozing, exercising and then I can crawl into my hole at work and be satisfied socially for the day.

I've been thinking of that. I just sometimes find that because these superficial shmoozings never result in friendships it is sometimes very taxing emotionally. Sometimes I feel it's better not to have any relationships that only superficial ones.

UQT wrote:

As far as your husband - my husband is completely anti-social in crowds and he's way better one on one so he may be the guy who is not being welcoming to your DH. Sometimes it's just a personality nothing personal.

True. In our case, it's entire shuls and communities that are not pleasant.
My husband is also not a social butterfly but he doesn't deliberately ignore people or treat them like garbage. Also, it's not that the entire shuls are comprised of introverts ykwim.

These days, I have to focus on what is good for my husband more than for myself or kids - because when he is in a bad place his state and the entire family unit will suffer by extension.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:54 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

For women , I haven't found one yet.let me know if you find one

elderberry, davis, gudz, Adams, Roberts are all very friendly to theme. But intensely
Misogynistic. Think little rascals treehouse

Is this a list of shuls?

I'm a foreigner - what's "little rascals treehouse"?
We once ended up in Abadi shul, they were very nice to both of us, on both sides of the mechitza. But this place is far from where we live now and expensive to buy nearby.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:57 pm

amother wrote:

Areas like raintree scare me because the crowd is so young. Even chestnut I find to be a very young mix.

I'd be scared of any area where the average age is under 40. I like areas with a large mix of ages.

Houses in my area of central don't sell for a ton, but they aren't the big fancy lakewood houses. they much simpler, which probably explains the crowd.

What part of Central is it? Right now I see 300k houses for under 1000sf, apparently meant to be demolished and built on. Or 450 for a small bilevel that will run close to 500k once you make necessary renovations.

amother

Powderblue

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 6:14 pm

[quote="amother"]To give you an example, 've been going to a class in the neighborhood on a rather regular basis, and then skipped a lot because of being sick repeatedly, for like 2 months. Nobody called, even though we all have each other's numbers. then bumped into one of the regulars who in the typical local polite manner exclaimed, "We missed you!" thought to myself, yea, right, for all you care could've been dead by now - you missed me that much that you never bothered to find out what's going on.
/quote]

I don't live in Lakewood, but I don't think what you are describing is a sign of not caring. Where I live people are like that, too. I am happy here and have friends, but someone who moved here was telling me things that are so similar to what you are saying.

When people are so busy, so overwhelmed just keeping up with their families, they are not necessarily going to reach out to others so much. That doesn't mean that they don't care or aren't nice or even that you can't have a relationship with them. But you can't wait for them to be the ones to reach out to you.

If I was taking a class and someone stopped coming, I don't think I would even think to call them up and ask them what happened to them. I think I would assume that it just didn't work for them for whatever reason. Do I have a responsibility to find out what is going on in all of my neighbor's lives? Or should I even be doing that? Maybe I am prying. Maybe you aren't coming because of a personal reason that you don't want to share. Did you call up someone from the class and tell them that you are sick and can't come but that she should please tell everyone else that you are sick but wish you could be there? Did you ask to record the class or something so that everyone would know? If not, how can you have taanos on the other members?

If you want to make friends, I would suggest that you pick a few people who you think might be good possibilities, and pursue them. Pick people who you know have a tendency to be social so you won't feel rejected (as opposed to someone like me, who loves people and likes to shmooze, but hasn't had a Shabbos guest - or been one - for about a year or more and is fine with that). Invite her for meals, go hang out at the park with her, join in on a project, you call her up to ask her about something and then shmooze about a common topic. You will probably have to be the one making the initiative for a long time, that's just how it is when people are beyond busy just managing their lives. But eventually you will have a relationship, assuming you are the kind of person that the friend you've chosen needs in her life, too.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 6:30 pm

Powderblue amother, where I live all these normative ways of creating friendships don't work. Those living in similar "communities" will know what I mean. In my previous place tops was saying hello to your neighbor, in my current place it is, like I said, borrowing eggs, cooperating in carpools and sharing recipes. People don't do deep talks, at least not with me, don't join each other for coffee etc. I can ask for advice but my reaching out doesn't get reciprocated. It's a specific type of crowd that doesn't operate the way I do.

And the example with the class was just to show that I can force myself to be part of things but it is just for the moment I'm physically there that I am visibly kind of part of things. Do you know what is out of sight out of mind is? Again, my kids are taught to inquire about an absent classmate...

sourstix

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 6:50 pm

burlywood, while I get what you are saying about being sick and noone inquiring. I do think what powderblue has a place too.

there are two sides to the coin. people are snobby and are not interested in others much and people do get busy. I could see both having a point.

I have learned that its not ok to rely on others to be your friend, I have learned that if you dont have friends 'be a friend'.

how about you inquire about your neighbors lives? are they the type that would share? or do they give you the feeling you are being nosy?

this definitely brings out a painful place for me too.

I think alot of us can relate.

when I lived in brooklyn I kind of felt this way. you can see people for years and they really dont inquire about you a thing bec they have their family and siblings and parents around so they dont need people. I find it snobby.

Notsobusy

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 6:58 pm

Is New England Village expensive these days? As far as I know it's a really nice neighborhood, with a nice mix of people, not very yeshivish and I know a few BTs who live there. Rabbi Gissinger would probably make a great rav for your husband.

Like naturalmom5 said, Rabbi Milstein is another great choice. He also gives a shiur sometimes on Shabbos afternoon for women. I'm trying to figure out where you can move near there that's not too expensive. Is Glen North expensive? It used to be much cheaper than the surrounding neighborhoods, with a lot of smaller houses. How about the Drake Rd/ White St neighborhood? I'm really out of it with real estate prices, so I can't be much help, sorry.

naturalmom5

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 6:59 pm

amother wrote:

Sorry ...little rascals was a TV show when I was a little girl in the 60s..
They had a treehouse with a big sign NO GIRLS ALLOWED
Most Lakewood shuls remind me of that

debsey

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 7:10 pm

It sounds like New England Village is closest to what you are looking for.

Someone suggested Toms River - you might like it there, it's definitely more reasonably priced, but AFAIK it's a very young crowd. There is a shul with a young, up and coming rav (who is from OOT, so it might be good for understanding that perspective, plus he's supposed to be a "mentsch").

Did you consider looking into the Albert area? It's a very mixed neighborhood that I hear is friendly, but I dk about rav and shul.

sourstix

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 7:17 pm

oh toms rive is expensive. I dont think she wants to go with that type of pricing.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 7:50 pm

I live near the old shul on ridge. Big mix there. My dh used to daven there, he loves the rav but he switched shuls for a few reasons, mainly because he wanted to daven in a chassidish shul, though were not chassidish. It's a very nice neighborhood, though idk if it's anything special.
I know of a few people in khal villiams street, on Williams street (sunset/james area) who are always bringing home guests that they meet in shul or staying late to talk to the guests. It sounds really nice. It may be an expensive neighborhood though, I'm not sure.
Op, your personality actually sounds similar to mine, would love to meet you one day Smile

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 8:03 pm

Sourstix, the difference between Brooklyn and here is that here we know each other's names and borrow foodstuff, and that kids play together. Oh, and we share cleaning ladies. But if yours quit a year ago that's too bad on you- they'll commiserate but only super rarely someone exceptional would spare an hour of their own help.

Taking initiative to become friends hasn't proved successful. It's a one way street in my neighborhood: I can inquire and start a conversation, select few cut it off, others don't but they never volunteer from their side, never initiate anything but a weather comment or short outside-recipe schmooze. They'll laugh off my half-joking invitation to have a coffee together, or tea and cake.
I've really tried, honestly. It's just been 5 years already, so now I think it ain't gonna work.

And with men it's much worse, some plainly don't respond to hellos. Others politely nod. Very very few exclaim hello. And that's it. One guy was becoming friendly till we realized he thought my dh had money and he wanted to take advantage.

naturalmom5

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 8:09 pm

amother wrote:

Sourstix, the difference between Brooklyn and here is that here we know each other's names and borrow foodstuff, and that kids play together. Oh, and we share cleaning ladies. But if yours quit a year ago that's too bad on you- they'll commiserate but only super rarely someone exceptional would spare an hour of their own help.

Taking initiative to become friends hasn't proved successful. It's a one way street in my neighborhood: I can inquire and start a conversation, select few cut it off, others don't but they never volunteer from their side, never initiate anything but a weather comment or short outside-recipe schmooze. They'll laugh off my half-joking invitation to have a coffee together, or tea and cake.
I've really tried, honestly. It's just been 5 years already, so now I thinly it ain't gonna work.

And with men it's much worse, some plainly don't respond to hellos. Others politely nod. Very very few exclaim hello. A
nd that's it. One guy was becoming friendly till we realized he thought my dh had money and he wanted to take advantage.

Helloooo!!!!!!

14th st.. Smile

amother

Cobalt

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 8:12 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

New central and Miller

Isn't that Rabbi Kammer's shul?

Notsobusy

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 8:17 pm

amother wrote:

Isn't that Rabbi Kammer's shul?

I think Rabbi Kammer is Central Court, corner of Central and New Central.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 8:20 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Helloooo!!!!!!

14th st.. Smile

Ehm...the guy 'thought' my dh had money, not "my dh had money"
But LOL

yep

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 8:24 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Sorry ...little rascals was a TV show when I was a little girl in the 60s..
They had a treehouse with a big sign NO GIRLS ALLOWED
Most Lakewood shuls remind me of that

I'm not even considering a shul for myself. At this point I don't care, I go only for shofar and Megillah. Though probably it would be an issue sooner or later as my girls would be getting older. I don't know, it really is a tough situation, I don't know what to do anymore.