Halachic View on Vaccines

Maybe

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 9:57 am

marina wrote:

If a new baby, as G_d's creation, is perfect and needs no "fixing," not sure why you'd have a bris at all.

The roman Emperor asked that question from Rabbi Akivah, his response G-D wanted to give us another mitzva, so he specifically commanded us to make a bris.

Most non religious Jews keep it , besides the Reform

The Journal of Patient Safety recently published a study which concluded that as many as 440,000 people die each year from preventable medical errors in hospitals. Tens of thousands also die from preventable mistakes outside hospitals, such as deaths from missed diagnoses or because of injuries from medications

ALYOR if you are allowed to spell out any name referring to G-D, where it might be erased

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/.....in-us

Last edited by Maybe on Fri, Mar 18 2016, 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 10:20 am

Huh? The argument is not that the surge is caused only for bris milah purposes, but rather Hashem commanded bris to be on the 8th day because that (the theory goes) is when Vitamin K levels have risen. It's to show Hashem's precision and care for us in how He commands mitzvos. The cause and effect has gotten a little lost in this conversation.

amother

Silver

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 11:37 am

suremom wrote:

I am writing this from my phone so I cant bring sources and please excuse my terminology.
vit k shot regulates the blood. if its to thick or thin it will bring it to the right level. a babys blood needs to be thin (therefore low vit k levels) so that the mothers stem cells passed thru the cord can enter the babys brain easily. once high dose of vit k is present in the blood it prevent the heaver stem cells from mom to flow into brain. therefore the blood needs to be thin. in recents years drs have finally admitted that leaving the cord pulsing (not clamping right away) has a lot of benefits to the baby even in later years. the problem was that the cord was clamped the second the baby was born so the blood from the cord (1/3 of the blood the baby actually has in its body) didnt get to the baby. and it didnt make a difference in vit k level. but if you leave the cord pulsing until its done before clamping then its ok not to give vit k so the stem cells reach the brain and there is less of a chance of bleeding in the brain. im rambling a bit because its hard to type from my phone but really you should each do your own research and not really on me (which I know you anyways wont...) this is one of the reasons there are more but this one seemed the most important to me.

I was actually recently doing research on Vitamin K at birth (even started a thread in the Natural Parenting section), so it's interesting to read what you're posting.

My home birth midwife who never clamps the cord immediately had a baby in her practice with VKDB (Vitamin K Deficiency Bleeding). The mother had refused the Vitamin K shot and on his second day of life had a pamper full of blood. He was taken to the hospital where they gave him larger doses of Vitamin K than he'd have gotten at birth.

Can you please tell me more about this?

amother

Linen

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 1:43 pm

amother wrote:

Do you trust some anonymous woman on the internet or your midwife who told you it didnt work for a child with the defect...

But, the concensus on here of the anti vitamin k crowd, is rather not give it for the "just in case". Rather wait and see, and then practice emergency medicine if needed (and hope the doctors who are in kahootz with big pharma are successful) because Hashem wants it that way.

amother

Linen

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 1:46 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

This is not what the original poster implied at all. She implied that there is no need for it because it goes up on day 8 before the bris.

Maybe

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 1:55 pm

amother wrote:

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlin.....0.htm

Early onset hemorrhagic disease of the newborn is very rare. It occurs during the first hours after birth and within 24 hours. Use of anti-seizure drugs or a blood thinner called coumadin during pregnancy is a common cause.

Classic onset disease occurs between 24 hours and 7 days after birth. It may be seen in breast-fed infants who did not receive a vitamin K shot within the first week after birth. It is also rare.

In NJ its optional, in NY mandatory, how crucial could it be if all these years, your next door neighbors with the same medical background laugh it of.

Never mind UK where they consider it dangerous

amother

Linen

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 2:22 pm

Maybe wrote:

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/007320.htm

Early onset hemorrhagic disease of the newborn is very rare. It occurs during the first hours after birth and within 24 hours. Use of anti-seizure drugs or a blood thinner called coumadin during pregnancy is a common cause.

Classic onset disease occurs between 24 hours and 7 days after birth. It may be seen in breast-fed infants who did not receive a vitamin K shot within the first week after birth. It is also rare.

In NJ its optional, in NY mandatory, how crucial could it be if all these years, your next door neighbors with the same medical background laugh it of.

Never mind UK where they consider it dangerous

Did you read the link you posted? It says the disease is rare in the US because we give vitamin k. Please provide links to statistics in other countries who do not give it.

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 2:27 pm

amother wrote:

This is not what the original poster implied at all. She implied that there is no need for it because it goes up on day 8 before the bris.

Right, which does not mean that it only goes up because of a bris.
But rather, if one chooses not to get it, they are not at high risk, because they do bris milah on the 8th day, as Hashem commanded.
Which is not the same as saying it only goes up so one can have the bris, so therefore girls shouldn't need their levels to go up. Or that boys who are not circumcised will not have their levels rise either.
The bris doesn't cause the levels to rise, it's the fact that it's already rising which makes the bris "safer".

Maybe

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 3:30 pm

amother wrote:

Did you read the link you posted? It says the disease is rare in the US because we give vitamin k. Please provide links to statistics in other countries who do not give it.

Many states like NJ do NOT mandate it

British Medical Journal,British Journal of Cancer & The Lancet, blame me the k injection for Cancer

http://proliberty.com/observer/19990710.htm

Last edited by Maybe on Fri, Mar 18 2016, 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Linen

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 3:39 pm

Maybe wrote:

Many states like NJ do NOT mandate it

British Medical Journal,British Journal of Cancer & The Lancet, blame me the injection for Cancer

http://proliberty.com/observer/19990710.htm

That font was too small to read and it was from 1999. Surely if it causes cancer there would be thousands and thousands of children in NY with cancer and much more current literature.

Maybe

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 3:51 pm

amother wrote:

That font was too small to read and it was from 1999. Surely if it causes cancer there would be thousands and thousands of children in NY with cancer and much more current literature.

What happened to? Always read the fine print

In a democracy you are entitled to believe what you want, regardless of the evidence.

dancingqueen

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:03 pm

amother wrote:

He did NOT!!!
Death was brought on us by trying to outsmart G-D, & eating from the forbidden tree

The RAMBAM guarantees you will be healthy for life if you follow his lifestyle (unless a major epidemic hits, NOT chicken pox)

Treating a sick child is a mitzvah, preforming medical procedures on perfectly healthy people, a totally different ball game. forbidden by brisker Rav, Igros Moshe & more.

Us? I wasn't there. But God did know that Adam would do that right, since he's omniscient. So he always planned for us to be mortal.

So if you do certain prevantative things (rambams lifestyle) you will be healthier? That's good, I agree, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. That's the point of vaccines.

As marina said, a medical procedure on a healthy child like a bris milah?

Maybe

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:03 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Us? I wasn't there. But G-D did know that Adam would do that right, since he's omniscient. So he always planned for us to be mortal.

So if you do certain prevantative things (rambams lifestyle) you will be healthier? That's good, I agree, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. That's the point of vaccines.

As marina said, a medical procedure on a healthy child like a bris milah?

You know 100% your DH will not light a fire on shabat, even for $1,000,000. Does that mean he his forced to ,or it is his free will?

That is if you are convinced it is prevention,

Bris milah was explicitly commanded by Hashem

gp2.0

Fri, Mar 18 2016, 5:20 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

The vitamin K shot has nothing to do with a bris. It's given because a percentage of babies are born with a disorder where they have low vitamin K levels and their blood does not clot properly. If untreated, these babies can develop internally bleeding (including serious, life threatening bleeding such cases as brain bleeds) which require surgery. There are a few types of vitamin K deficiency. The internal bleeding can occur days, weeks, or even months after birth... Here is an article that describes it well http://evidencebasedbirth.com/.....orns/

Omg, THIS.