Another tuition vent....

mommy3b2c

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 2:49 pm

alwaysamother wrote:

I think the problem is when you distance it and call it 'the system' instead of realizing that someone else is picking up the slack - that isn't just between man and G-d. That is between man and man.

Thank G-d I have always paid full tuition. G-do willing I always will. Do I think it's annoying that some of my kids classmates have gorgeous homes and fancy vacations, etc... While getting a scholarship? Sure. However, it doesn't concern me or my life at all. What they do is their business, what I do is mine. I never saw them as stealing from my pockets.

amother

Magenta

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 2:50 pm

princessleah wrote:

I can't believe how little some of these Rebbeim and teachers are paid. It's criminal. We're sabotaging ourselves. If tuition gets so high that the only people who can afford it are bankers and lawyers, then everyone will become bankers and lawyers and there will be no teachers!

We need to make it attractive and honorable to go into klei kodesh, not something looked down upon by the community. You are putting your children's education into these people's hands. They deserve every benefit and tuition break for bucking the system and not going after the money. Seriously, give them everything.

This sounds nice in theory but if you make tuition too high many people will not send their children to yeshiva and will send to public school as they also feel it's important to put food on the table. The tuition has to be proportional to someone's income. If the chinuch system is bringing kids up to sit in kollel and even after that not have such a great job while having a huge family (and even if they don't). Nobody looks down on Rebbeim but people can't be expected to live in debt just to pay the salary of the Rebbi.

The schools need to take a real honest look at what is NEEDED for a facility . If you ask me, it would be better for the Rebbi to teach in his own living room and the like and get a better salary. Schools need to work with what families make per month and not expect families to go into debt to pay them. They need to take into account that financial stress is not good for shalom bayis of the home.

It is incredibly unfair to squeeze the finances of the parents just to give the Rebbi a decent salary when there is more to why the Rebbi is not getting a proper salary.

As a parent , right now I am paying a nice amount per month for tuition and on top of it the Rebbi is telling me that I need to hire a tutor multiple times a week! How much money am I supposed to be laying out? Mind you, the Rebbi lives better than me .

shooting star

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 3:11 pm

I think cost of living in general is becoming unreasonable to manage.

We supposedly make "lots" of money (read: over six figures) but at the end of the day we feel really pinched. As in, the only red meat I buy is medium ground beef and water it down with lots of pasta sauce. Or I mostly buy used clothes for my kids and only have one car (while living in the suburbs).

Don't know how people afford school on top of it all but we are planning to move to Israel where the cost of school is much much lower and we don't have to pay into a public school system we aren't using. That was our answer, move to Israel.

cnc

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 5:01 pm

amother wrote:

After school hours are unpaid. How much time you take to prep doesn't count towards your salary... EVERY job practically has time that you work without getting paid. Therapists write notes, do consultations (With more experienced professionals, clients psychiatrists, other agencies if part of the picture etc) and more without getting an extra cent. But they have to legally and because it makes for a better end result.

So are you agreeing or disagreeing with my point?
Amother Morah is claiming that $25 is not a bad salary for the hours that she taught. If she takes into account the unpaid after hours then she is not making anywhere near $25 an hour.

(Side point, but therapists usually take notes the last few minutes of a session. So for example they're charging 150+ for an hour session but they usually spend 45 minutes with the client and the last 15 minutes writing up the session...)

abound

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 5:21 pm

amother wrote:

Your biggest chinuch problem is that you do not respect the person who is educating your child. Your financial problems are minor compared to...........

imorethanamother

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 9:53 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Thank God I have also always paid full tuition. Tuition, however, has steadily gone up every year, and now I can't afford it any longer. And now I have to ask parents and grandparents to help me yearly to pay my tuition. And when you ask the school why tuition has gone up so dramatically on a yearly basis (I don't know anyone who got a 10% raise this year, but tuition has gone up by that much), they blame families who are on scholarship and the costs of salaries plus insurance and utilities.

Since we can't decrease utilities, that leaves salaries and scholarships. I, too, want my teachers to be paid well. So that leaves scholarships. I, too, want families that are working hard and struggling to be able to afford school. But someone, somewhere, has to help out this situation because it is not working. And people blithely running about saying, "OH, MY RABBI told me it's WRONG to take birth control because we must have all these precious Jewish children!" are the people who are, frankly, oblivious to what it takes to actually afford said precious children.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 9:56 pm

cnc wrote:

I'm a PT and this is definitely not possible even most of the time. Paperwork is a huge extra part of my job that I don't necessarily get to finish during work hours.

imorethanamother

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 10:00 pm

amother wrote:

First of all, what makes you think I have 8-10 kids?!
Secondly, I do not believe that anybody should use BC because they can not afford full tuition. Any Rav with whom my husband and I have discussed this has bemoaned the situation where people think that htey should use BC bec they cant afford tuition. Nebach. I do not believe that this is what Hashem wants of us.
Btw, on our current income , 54,000 dh, approx 22,000 myself, with all the normal costs of a family, eg mortgage, food, insurances etc , we actually cant afford to pay more than 1.5 -2 tuitions in full. Are you by any chance suggesting that becasue my husband gives his life and soul to be mechanech the children of the community that we should have a maximum of 2 or 3 children?! Because if you are suggesting that, then that is just ridiculous. You need to stop being jealous of the rebbeim whom you mentioned in your earlier post who shouldnt chas veshalom in your opinion get more than 3 free tuitions. Live and let live. Deal with your own finances and keep out of other peoples.
I know that I am being a little rude here, I jsut get so mad at some people's insistence on how bad it is that some rebbeim (my family excluded unfortunately) get free tuition. Being in chinuch is hard hard work, it is also very rewarding and exciting. It is my husband's life mission but the salary is not at all commensurate with the amount of hours, experience and qualifications. My husband for example has been in chinuch for about 20 years BH, he has a masters in education and a masters in special ed. It is a very poorly paid profession, we have major major financial worries all the time. don't bother being jealous please.

LOL. I'm "just jealous"? No, I'm asking you to take responsibility. For what it's worth, I left teaching because it didn't pay the bills. And I'm telling you now that I work very long hours, which would be mitigated if somehow school didn't have vacation every freaking other day for the stupidest things. (If you're a Jewish school, I want a full day of school on every national holiday like MLK day and Labor Day and New Years day. And while we're on the topic, why is Passover break like three weeks off?). I don't get summers off. I take birth control because I don't like asking people to pay for my choices.

Being a Rebbe IS the most rewarding job. I don't blame your husband for going into it. It also receives a lot of respect in our community, a lot of perks, and a lot of government assistance. And since by extension I am paying your salary, you better believe that I think it's unfair for every Rebbe's family to get more than four free tuitions a year.

cnc

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 10:12 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

I'm not so sure about that, based on the attitudes on this thread.

imorethanamother

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 10:18 pm

cnc wrote:

I'm not so sure about that, based on the attitudes on this thread.

Please. As others have said, it entitles you to free tuition, free dinners, reduced rates on camp and even clothing and food for yom tov. In Lakewood, it means you're accepted into schools that us lower working folk aren't. I guarantee you, if the community didn't respect you, you'd get none of that. The community - and I don't live in Lakewood - doesn't seem to respect people that get jobs that require educational degrees, so there isn't a fundraiser for our reduced-fee food and clothing.

amother

Cyan

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 10:22 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

I take offence to some of your comments.You are tarring all rebbeim with the same brush. I will repeat, in my family's specific circumstances, we dont get free tuition because my kids are not in the school where dh teaches.
we DO NOT receive free dnners, reduced camp rates, free clothing and food, nor do we get gifts for Purim from dh's students (nor chanukah either for that matter).
I repeat, Dh has masters degrees in education and in special education. What makes you think htat rebbiem do not have educational degrees? I know quite a lot who do. It sounds to me like you live in Lakewood Ir Hakodesh and feel quite jaded about a lot of stuff. Please dont assume that all rebbeim have the same circumastances. YOu clearly are unhappy, dont project that on others.

amother

Cyan

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 10:29 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Just another comment, not all schools or communities are the same. I thinkyou should move out of Lakewood and see what other community schools have to offer. For the record, the schools in my community are in school all day on MLK day, New Years day and the Pesach break is less than two weeks. ... I am so sorry to hear that your kids schools have so much vacation. I understand full well that it is hard for working mothers.

Also, my husbands job comes with no perks that I can think of. Please tell me what perks you think the job comes with. He has no insurance of any kind provided by the school , not medical, dental, life insurance etc. The pension plan is probably worse than any other, only 1% match by the school. We also get no gvt assistance, our combined income and family size is (thankfully) too high. And btw, just in case you were wondering, any tutoring or extra income that my husband gets is declared on our tax return.

Dear imorethanamother , you seem to have a very low regard for Rebbeim. I am so disapointed by your attitude towards a whole sector of workers Sad

amother

Burlywood

Wed, Mar 23 2016, 1:17 am

cnc wrote:

I am in the mental health field. I did get a BA, MA, plus literally thousands of hours of unpaid internships, and studying for the licensing exams... And I pay malpractice insurance, rent, fees for licensing and CEUs, cleaning, utilities etc.... Student loans too...So I am no millionaire. Nowhere near.
And depending upon where I have worked, the amount of time I put towards notes varies... Some places the paperwork can be over an hour for just the intake session! These are unpaid hours.
And $25 an hour for none of the overhead or unpaid internships sounds quite nice... Even with prep hours.

imorethanamother

Wed, Mar 23 2016, 2:54 am

amother wrote:

It's amazing to me that suggesting a cap on the number of free tuitions someone is entitled to gets everyone so riled up. I wonder why that is. I'm getting accused of having a "low regard" for my children's teachers, and I have "attitude". No, I have a long workday, an insane tuition bill, and an apathetic school board.

Here, let me explain. If I make $100,000, I am taxed on that $100,000. I am in a specific tax bracket and in addition, I also have to pay for $54,000 in tuition for children in elementary school. If you make 52,000, but receive $54,000 in tuition breaks as an added bonus, then you are only taxed on 52,000, and are in fact taxed at a lower rate based on your tax bracket. In the end, you make more money, you have lower taxes and qualify for more aid, and many Rabbis set aside some of their income as non-taxable parsonage. Others, as clergy, need not have to pay property taxes.

I didn't say I hate Rabbis and all of them should be drawn and quartered. I suggested that a non-taxed income of $54,000 a year is enough ( the equivalent of four tuitions, on top of salary which is another $50,000-80,000, depending), and no more. Making people feel the weight of their decisions isn't hating on a segment of people, unless somehow you feel the suggestion of taking responsibility and ownership is a mean thing to ask of such a population.

Also, if your school isn't offering health insurance, they're out of compliance with the ACA.

amother

Plum

Wed, Mar 23 2016, 4:55 am

imorethanamother wrote:

What free dinners? Are you talking about the annual find raiser? Should staff pay to go to a company dinner? You do realize we are working when we go there. Everyone thinks it is PTA and discusses their children throughout.

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Mar 23 2016, 6:36 am

imorethanamother wrote:

Regarding only your comment on ACA; You are incorrect. There are loopholes after loopholes and ime, only the mo schools offer insurance. In fact, I had accepted a position this year as a lead teacher and dh is a secular studies teacher. My position was full time (8:15-4:30!) and paid only $20,000, and offered no health benefits or any other paid days off - no sick leave, and lets say I took off a day before a school break, I would be double docked. I was astounded, and asked on a local facebook page how this was ok that the local schools dont offer health benefits to full time teachers. Literally none of them do. I was attacked! People were livid, asking me how dare I expect the school to pay my health, or any other teacher/rebbes health, which would jack up their tuition.
Ps - I backed out of that job.