Is it ok for me to pay my son to help me?

sleepybeauty

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:04 am

Honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with bribing your kids when necessary. As lymnok said, do it by chore to ensure productivity.
It will keep him busy and teach him about finances.

When I was much younger, every Sunday my mother would give us a penny for each thing we put away (it adds up fast because if you clean a pile of art supplies, each piece counts) and then we would go to the dollar store to spend it. It made cleaning much more fun.

If you yell at your kids to clean and take away their priveledges, you are going to have bitter, resentful children which is the last thing you need right now.

mummiedearest

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:06 am

sleepybeauty wrote:

or you will have kids who learn to prioritize. letting them know the consequence in advance gives them choices. some things should not be negotiable.

sleepybeauty

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:23 am

mummiedearest wrote:

or you will have kids who learn to prioritize. letting them know the consequence in advance gives them choices. some things should not be negotiable.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, but it is broken here. She already tried other tactics, none of which worked. She should not continue taking away his stuff, that is an unfair punishment and does not fit the crime.
Bribing him within reason in whatever way is most effective is really no different than giving a kid a sticker for doing something good or letting them have dessert after eating dinner.

mummiedearest

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:34 am

sleepybeauty wrote:

If it ain't broken, don't fix it, but it is broken here. She already tried other tactics, none of which worked. She should not continue taking away his stuff, that is an unfair punishment and does not fit the crime.
Bribing him within reason in whatever way is most effective is really no different than giving a kid a sticker for doing something good or letting them have dessert after eating dinner.

I don't consider it an unfair punishment. if they can't clean up their own stuff, they can't have their own stuff. they're welcome to keep their stuff as long as they take responsibility for it, including pesach cleaning it. I think it's important that kids not feel they can run the household according to their whims. most teens don't like spring cleaning/pesach cleaning. that doesn't excuse them. moping is the teen equivalent of throwing a tantrum. giving in to it by paying them is telling them they can do whatever it takes to get the outcome they want. it also means mom will do whatever it takes to get the outcome she wants, but she doesn't have the energy to show her authority. yes, teens should have some respect, but they have to show it and be part of the family first. pesach cleaning is a family responsibility. he has off. his mom is ill. both parents work full time. he doesn't get to say no. and if he chooses to do so anyway, his stuff can be taken from him.

I have seen a lot of this kind of thing from teen boys. instill that sense of family responsibility now before this attitude carries over into other things. the mom has to put her foot down, especially if the dad is displaying the same attitude.

lfab

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:34 am

amother wrote:

I hear you loud and clear. I just want to make it clear that cleaning help in the evenings is not a possibility this depression is seriously debilitating...I come home at 6 and go straight to bed until 7 the next morning...I cant push myself anymore than I am...just going to work saps out every ounce of me right now.

Can you have the cleaning help come at 6 when you get home. While they are there nap on the couch then go to bed as soon as they leave. You don't have to actually do anything/push yourself just be around since you said you don't want them there when you are not home. IF possible try to hire a team 2-3 people who can come together. Then they can get more done in less time and you won't have to have them come often (2 or 3 times should do it). Hatzlacha and I hope you get some help for your depression Hug

amother

Papaya

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:38 am

I have first-hand experience as to how debilitating depression can be. I'm sorry you're having such a rough time.

Personally, I would announce to the entire family that I am going on strike until they start pitching in to help. I would explain that I mean no cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, library going, etc until they do x, Y, and z. I would have a list of jobs they can pick from. And then I would follow through.

Alternatively, can you hire a cleaning service rather than a cleaning lady? They send more than one person at a time and get the job done faster. That way there won't be a yichud issue with your son.

You also need to tell your husband that things are not working and you need his help to fix them. Will your children listen to their father? Also tell him that you can't host his parents for Pesach if things continue the way they are. If he wants them to come then he has to find a way to make the apartment Pesachdic.

Most importantly, are you getting help for the depression? If not, then please find yourself a therapist ASAP.

musicmom

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:44 am

You need to find what motivates your sons, like working for a special trip or time alone with you, or a musical experience or instrument.

But ultimately, your main goal is to prepare them for the world, a world where they may need to chip in and know things about household management. Doing everything for them or paying them is not helpful because they need to know that as a member of this family they need to do x y and z.

Blue jay

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:51 am

At this point, I agree with other posters. Pay the boy! and have his other siblings join in! But $100 bucks is too much!

Tell him you will pay him "Good money" maybe in the 'Double digits" after he accomplishes the following jobs in the BEST way possible up to your standards:

Clean countertops, scrub sticky stuff off refrigerator. ( you fill in the blanks just be sure to explain the process of using toilet wands and spray cleaner etc)

Then when all said and done to your liking " Reward your boy with a hug and kiss and tears of joy ( seriously my eyes became misty when my dd did the dishes for me as a surprise one day!) And then hand him over $50 bucks!

Now if you can take this one step further..... If your son can supervise his siblings with other jobs around the house that you specify. Then give him some extra money. Boost it up to $25.
Then give the younger siblings 5- 10 dollars each depending on their age.

And finally, Use this system year round. Allowances do work under your terms. If they dont meet your expectations pay them less or nothing if they did nothing.

But I have a feeling this can work out for you! Hug

amother

Taupe

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 11:53 am

amother wrote:

This depression is fairly new and I'm in the process of getting a therapist but havent gone to one yet...my DH told me to go to my GP today and he contacted Relief and another referral agency yesterday. I contacted someone else, but I heard some negative reviews . There is just so much going on right now, that's why the help from my kids is so badly needed, but they have no clue that I'm not well and neither do my in laws know.

gp2.0

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 12:16 pm

Yes, I think you should pay him.

Mummiedearest at 15 the time for consequences is over. OP had 13 years to teach her child how to be a member of the household. She missed the window of opportunity.

Paying him encourages him to help you and builds positive feelings associated with household chores which will last him into adulthood. I would pay on a scale - small jobs like picking up his own room are worth less than washing dishes which is worth less than mopping floors etc.

amother

Blush

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 12:16 pm

OP

I am so sorry you are suffering with debilitating depression. Sadly the depression I am sure is effecting the children as well. Who is taking care of the younger kids while you are battling depression? Is your DH acknowledging that you are depressed?

You need a game plan while your getting the depression under control.

Household chores

Right now just use plastic, paper goods and disposables. Make food clean up as easy as possible. Use plastic disposable table cloths so you just have to wrap up the table cloth and throw it out (very easy and takes no time)

Get cleaning wipes like Clorox, even little kids love to wipe. Have one on the counters and in each bathroom. Get toilet cleaners for each toilet example http://www.globalindustrial.co.....O0DXg . This is all accessible and on finger tips easy to do.

For the floors get a swiffer, much less work then a mop and pail and kids love gadgets so they will want to use it.

Forget about folding laundry for now get a laundry basket for each person and when the clothing is clean it gets put into their laundry basket.

Clutter, if you don't have the energy to put stuff away get a few boxes and put everything in it. When you are better you will deal with it better then.

Have someone make a chore chart and the kids will know what their daily jobs are.

Suppers, sandwiches and frozen foods for now.

Everyone should post their suggestions for quick and easy clean ups that kids can do.,

I am sure if the house is looking better you will feel more comfortable and not so overwhelmed.

Pesach.

The important thing is to get the chometz out, no spring cleaning. Have a child open a draw a look to if there is chametz, no folding and organizing, just look for chametz.

Cooking as simple as possible.

Disposable plates and silverware etc.

Just close the kitchen cabinets and sell. Get a burner so you don't have to kasher your stove top. Order online. Call up a store like the Buzz and make an order and have it delivered.

Bake potatoes no kugels. Chicken simple and plain. For the rest just buy it if you can.

The important thing is for you to get better.

Refuah Sh'laimah

amother

Taupe

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 12:19 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I actually want you to know it is hurtful when you say I had 13 years to teach my child...boy oh boy did I teach...My kids always helped me until they reached the ripe old age of 13...and they stopped once they became teenagers, so I hope it's a passing phase. My first two boys have had the same thing...as soon as they became Bar Mitzvah they stopped contributing to family chores etc.

gp2.0

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 12:28 pm

amother wrote:

So sorry OP. I didn't mean that you failed to teach them. Just the opposite, you mentioned that you are doing consequences etc. but at age 15 consequences are no longer effective parenting, and making the consequences worse and worse as mummiedearest was suggesting will accomplish nothing except make your teens even less responsive. That's what I meant, and I'm sorry for hurting you.

Positive reinforcement is the way to go here. If you initially have to do that with money then that's ok. But I would include a lot of verbal reinforcement, telling them that their help is appreciated, that they are valuable members of the household, that you are proud you can rely on them to be responsible and hardworking etc. The money is a tangible expression of all these sentiments and you can tell them that too.

amother

Taupe

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 12:34 pm

[quote="gp2.0"]So sorry OP. I didn't mean that you failed to teach them. Just the opposite, you mentioned that you are doing consequences etc. but at age 15 consequences are no longer effective parenting, and making the consequences worse and worse as mummiedearest was suggesting will accomplish nothing except make your teens even less responsive. That's what I meant, and I'm sorry for hurting you.

Positive reinforcement is the way to go here. If you initially have to do that with money then that's ok. But I would include a lot of verbal reinforcement, telling them that their help is appreciated, that they are valuable members of the household, that you are proud you can rely on them to be responsible and hardworking etc. The money is a tangible expression of all these sentiments and you can tell them that too.[/quote

Oh. that sounds so much better. My hurt is gone... Smile

mummiedearest

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 12:36 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I disagree. 15 year olds can handle consequences. and this is not an uncommon thing for teen boys to do. the question is, does one let a teen boy get away with this behavior? I don't think so.

sleepybeauty

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 12:42 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

I disagree. 15 year olds can handle consequences. and this is not an uncommon thing for teen boys to do. the question is, does one let a teen boy get away with this behavior? I don't think so.

I'm not sure what the behavior is that is so bad. It really isn't his responsibility to clean the whole house for Pesach. His stuff, yes, but not everyone else's.

mummiedearest

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 12:49 pm

sleepybeauty wrote:

I'm not sure what the behavior is that is so bad. It really isn't his responsibility to clean the whole house for Pesach. His stuff, yes, but not everyone else's.

true, he shouldn't have to clean the whole house. he should, however, willingly agree to help. and he's not. I don't think it's a good idea to pay a teen to do the work he should be doing anyway. if you want him to do extra, different story. she has begged all her family members to do what they should be doing and they are not pitching in. paying him would be saying, "oh, it's fine if you don't do what mom tells you to. after all, you're not getting anything out of it. here's $100 bucks, sweetheart." not cool.

it's different if you decide to do this before requesting the help. you can say, "honey, I'm not up to cleaning as usual this year, so I'm prepared to give you $x to do some extra work for me." that's fine. throwing $100 at the problem will backfire.

gp2.0

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 1:01 pm

Many people successfully use reward systems and allowances linked to chores. It's not a crazy concept. It works. Especially when it's given along with a lot of verbal loving affirmation.

And if something isn't working (in this case consequences) then it's not working. If you're turning something clockwise and it gets harder and harder to turn, you don't get out a wrench and keep turning it clockwise until it breaks. You turn it counter-clockwise.