Shabbos Guest Etiquette?

amother

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 1:04 am

We just had 2 single girls over for shabbos (they're in their early 20's) and they slept the entire shabbos!!!

They came over erev shabbos and went to their room. They came down for candlelighting and the meal. They went up to sleep (or do whatever in their room) they came down the next day after everyone got home and I had to wake them for kiddush - we all had to wait for them. After the meal, they went back up to sleep again until after 8:00 for shalosh seudas and then they sat and read.

They're family/friends and why did they bother to come if they weren't going to even talk? I told them that I would be going to shul on shabbos and they didn't want to come. I went to a shiur, they didn't want to come and instead stayed home and slept/stayed in their room? while dh learned and babysat.

What is the etiquette for a shabbos guest? Should they go to shul when you go to shul? A shiur? Or can they do what they want?

TzenaRena

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 1:37 am

There was a thread a while back discussing this very thing! It sounds like these girls are immature. or uncommonly shy, but still...

http://www.imamother.com/forum.....17574

Last edited by TzenaRena on Sun, Aug 05 2007, 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total

Ima'la

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 5:48 am

DH thinks seminary girls have no lives b/c all they do is sleep all the time! I keep trying to tell them that they sleep an average of 2.5 hrs. a night the rest of the week and make it all up on Shabbos, which is the only time he sees (or doesn't see!) them, but... Don't know if this applies to your early-20s girls...

I think guests should definitely not hold up your seudah/schedule by sleeping...but other than that, as long as they are polite and sociable at the seudah, I don't think they have to go to shul/shiurim as you do. (Unless it will cause yichud issues with your husband, in which case you can polite inform them of the relevant circumstances.)

If it's girls whom you know personally (not just set up by you), I think they should be more sociable, but if they're not...(shrug). When that happens to me, I remind myself that I should do hachnosas orchim for the mitvah, not just for the pleasure of having company.

(I guess I should clarify that I don't think how they acted is ideal, but this is what I would say to you - if they asked me what I thought, I would respond to them differently!)

greenfire

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 7:36 am

I personally cannot understand why there are barely any girls in shul ... especially since they do have the rest of the afternoon to sleep - they should be waking up for shul - I cannot stand when I see them rolling out of bed for kiddush ... how disrespectful for shabbos !!!

Ima'la

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 7:47 am

not to mention disrespectful to tefillah, halacha, etc....but that is their problem - I.e. between them and Hashem - as long as they are at the table on time, I don't know if the hosts should view it as a major affront to themselves.

TzenaRena

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 7:53 am

greenfire wrote:

I agree, totally!

amother

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 8:28 am

Thanks for responding. They aren't seminary girls, they're working, but I appreciate the input. I was upset about it, but on the other hand, I was thinking, well, maybe they're tired, and anyway, it's between them and hashem. But I just felt it was weird (they weren't set up with us), why bother to come? You can sleep at home? They never even saw the outside of the house.

chocolate moose

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 9:17 am

A shul that davens at 10 won't be done until after noon......ostensibly the girls could have gotten up for the davening to be there at the end at least, but it sounds like that wasn't their plan for Shabbos.

Until DD became a full blown teenager, I only hosted teenage BOYS for Shabbos - it was MUCH easier.

amother

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 9:21 am

Well shul starts, I think around 8-8:30, but I don't leave until about 9:30 b/c ds has to eat breakfast and I have to set up for lunch (we were having a bunch of guests) so I don't have to make the salad, plate fish and dips, etc. before kiddush. I don't think I left before 9:45. And, we shmoosed at kiddush, etc. and so we came home to make kiddush and had to wake them up and wait at about 12:00.

Mitzvahmom

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 9:23 am

You know this is always a good question..

when I go away for shabbos I always try to help, I guess it's because of how I was raised to help out. Alot of people go away and it's literally their vacation time.

I recently learned that sometimes, if your too nice to your host family they can majorly take advantage and then it can bite u in the tush so to speak the moment you do not want to help.

Think the point is, that it's a shabbos away. You offered for them to go to shul, you offered for them to go to a shir.

Maybe they were tired, as you said they work. Point is, do not judge until you are in those guests shoes. Maybe they had a rough week and needed to rest, I am fairly certain they did daven.

Quote:

while dh learned and babysat.

Why point this out, did you want them to babysit??

suomynona

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 9:25 am

TzenaRena wrote:

greenfire wrote:

I agree, totally!

girls have no obligation whatsoever to daven in shul. If they do, it's a nice thing, and of course they should daven at home if they don't go.
But you can't judge girls for not doing something they have no obligation to do.

amother

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 9:34 am

I stated "while dh learned and babysat" not to say that I wanted them to babysit - of course not, but rather, that I'm off at a shuir while they're at home with my husband and baby. As for it being vacation and I don't know their week - I had a hard week too, and what about the fact that Everyone is going to shul and they're home alone in my house? Isn't that weird? I not once asked them to help. They did offer and after I said a few times there was nothing to do, they did help plate and clear the dishes (which was very nice) but it's not about that.

I did not invite them to be babysitters or helpers or slaves, but I thought that I would invite guests that would like to have a conversation. Like to talk rather than going to their room....They only came out for meals! No one finds this weird? I don't get it. When I am a guest in someone else's home, dh does what their dh does and I do what the dw does. If she goes to shul, I go, if she doesn't, I don't.

TzenaRena

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 9:38 am

Quote:

It's the custom of women and girls to daven in shul on Shabbos, although of course they are generally exempt from tefillah b'tzibbur.

Mothers of young children have a different obligation, but for a young lady or teen to skip shul Shabbos morning seems to indicate not the best level of Yiras Shomayim.

Individually, every person may have their off times for valid reasons we may not know of, so sure, we should be dan l'kaf z'chus, but generally I believe that it's a telling sign.

Ima'la

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 9:51 am

OP, I understand what you're saying, and yes, I agree that their behavior was not ideal - if they would write on Imamother, "This is what I did when I went away for Shabbos - what do you think?" I would have a few things to say to them! But other than making you wait for the seudah, which is inexcusable, especially at such a late hour, as long as they were polite at the table, then as a hostess, I would just write it off to unsociable company.

Pickle Lady

Sun, Aug 05 2007, 10:03 am

This is just my veiw but until they are married with kids, to me they are just teenagers. I would see them as kids because an adult would have realized that the bulabusta would appreciate some help like babysiting and maybe helping setting up the table.