Can't stay on top of the house

nursemomma

Mon, May 16 2016, 1:30 pm

For a working mother with young children who cannot pitch in with housework, cleaning help should be a priority. A cleaning lady once a week before shabbos for 3 hours can come out to about $33 dollars (in brklyn and Lakewood for sure, don't know about other places) and make the world of a difference.
Women were meant to be home raising their children, and if they are working, they do deserve that little bit of help!
As for the husbands, many are burdened down by tremendous financial pressures, not to mention their other responsibilities like davening three times a day etc.

amother

Black

Mon, May 16 2016, 2:27 pm

When I went back to work DH started complaining about the mess in our house. So I told him that he couldn't sit down to relax in the evening until I sat. He had to keep tidying, cleaning the kitchen, doing laundry, putting toys away until it was all done.

He has since lowered his standards and will sometimes say "let's just sit down. The toys can wait until tomorrow."

We both work and it's unfair for all the housework to fall on me and for him to complain about the mess.

dancingqueen

Mon, May 16 2016, 2:43 pm

nursemomma wrote:

It costs a lot more than that in many other places.

I think that women are "entitled" to expect that their husbands will pitch in in some way, especially if they work full time as well. If the dh truly refuses (And to me that's not acting like a mensch) then they do need to figure out how to pay for it.

HonesttoGod

Mon, May 16 2016, 2:45 pm

pause wrote:

I'm sorry that you are in a tough financial spot.

I always hear Reb. Braunstein A"H saying that if she could do it all over again, the one thing she'd change is get more cleaning help.

There's no way one person can do everything: work, be present for your kids, be available for your husband, make sure everyone has clean clothing to wear, food to eat, and the house is clean enough to be livable. Something has got to go.

I heard a Rav speak recently and he said that even a stay at home mother should have help. No mother can be expected to be an absolutely perfect amazing mother if she has to juggle all the balls herself. Full time work is just an additional ball to watching the kids, washing, cooking, cleaning and entertaining and taking care of herself and her marriage.

He said he recommended a school for a special needs child to a parent. The parent said he found a way to pay for this school - by getting rid of the help who came three hours a day to help his wife. The Rav said no way. YOu find the money elsewhere. Your wife needs this help.

My point is, yes we can make do without help and we are not entitled to it but help should be at the top of the budgeting list together with bread, water, roof and childcare. We should not be made to feel guilty because our kids don't have clean clothes, ate cereal for supper and now we are lying down for 20 minutes to rest. I would sooner give tzedakah to help a working mom have 2 hours cleaning help a week than to someone trying to marry off their child. I believe that cleaning help is SO important in the sanity of a working woman. Especially full time working.

As great jugglers as we are, even the best top world class juggler has a limit to how much he can juggle. Drop one ball and you wobble precariously on the edge of dropping them all.

I have very limited cleaning help, very limited funds but each time I ask my husband to please cancel the cleaning lady so we can pay off more credit card debt he says no way. Of course he helps every way he can but there is a limit.

amother

Ivory

Mon, May 16 2016, 3:03 pm

HonesttoGod wrote:

I heard a Rav speak recently and he said that even a stay at home mother should have help. No mother can be expected to be an absolutely perfect amazing mother if she has to juggle all the balls herself. Full time work is just an additional ball to watching the kids, washing, cooking, cleaning and entertaining and taking care of herself and her marriage.

He said he recommended a school for a special needs child to a parent. The parent said he found a way to pay for this school - by getting rid of the help who came three hours a day to help his wife. The Rav said no way. YOu find the money elsewhere. Your wife needs this help.

I relate to the OP as far as the anhedonia and need for easy stress relief. However, she's got kids and a DH who isn't privy to a huge secret. Get help and put it behind you. Therapy and antidepressantsry off their child. I believe that cleaning help is SO important in the sanity of a working woman. Especially full time working.

As great jugglers as we are, even the best top world class juggler has a limit to how much he can juggle. Drop one ball and you wobble precariously on the edge of dropping them all.

I have very limited cleaning help, very limited funds but each time I ask my husband to please cancel the cleaning lady so we can pay off more credit card debt he says no way. Of course he helps every way he can but there is a limit.

I don't think anyone should let some rabbi dictate where their family money goes. That's between the couple. If one person wants to put extra funds toward a maid, fine. The couple that chooses to put it toward education (e.g., us) ISN'T doing the wrong thing. It's each family's choice. Again - cleaning help, while deemed by many as important, IS NOT A NECESSITY.

observer

Mon, May 16 2016, 3:11 pm

amother wrote:

In that story, it was the husband offering to give up the cleaning help, not both of them. The rov was sticking up for the wife.

pause

Mon, May 16 2016, 3:13 pm

HonesttoGod wrote:

Agreed.

All the more so when she's working and helping her DH in his obligations toward providing for the family...

ra_mom

Mon, May 16 2016, 4:27 pm

amother wrote:

Nice tips but most of those don't work if you have really little ones. Throw in a load while kids awake? Omg, heaven knows what I would find when I get back upstairs.. Clean bathroom while kids in bath? Just trying to maintain safety for those in the tub and those trying to get into the tub keeps me busy enough!

You're right, these tips don't work all the time. There were periods when they didn't for me either. Hopefully, when you have a very small baby your spouse understands that he has to bend himself over backwards to pitch in much more than usual even if he is super exhausted. Either baths don't happen every night, one kid gets one night, the other the next. Or everyone wakes up early to give baths together. Or whatever else works for you as a family. Dh can wipe down the vanity and toilet surfaces with a clorox wipe while he uses the facilities once he gets home. The bathtub can be sprayed with a no rinse spray after bath time. Laundry here and there was still doable for me as we live on one floor so I'd have the kids with me, sort, and ask the one/s who were able to interact to hand me the clothes or put them right into the washer. Dh and I were more bleary eyed than usual, and I cried a whole lot Smile

we end up having to squeeze ourselves and get a bit more cleaning help because of it, we cut a lot more corners, couldn't allow as much of the mess to bother us, knew we had to work more closely as a team in order to make the family work.
Hopefully the tips originally posted can be a guide to figure out how to split things properly in a way that makes sense with each spouse's work hours and the family needs.

imorethanamother

Mon, May 16 2016, 9:23 pm

It's very hard. Full disclosure: I have tons of cleaning help, but it's not enough. She leaves before the kids come home, (I work) and after dinner and playtime and homework, and ESPECIALLY the horrible weekends, it's a pigsty.

If you're working, and if you don't have tons of cleaning help, then you either (1) get more cleaning help (2) put the kids to bed at 6:30 and get to work. 7 is pushing it, because you're battling fatigue. There's no way you can clean while the kids are up, so don't even try.

Get a dishwasher, and use it. Throw everything in there, it doesn't matter if it takes multiple times.

I throw in a load an hour before bed, throw it in the dryer before bed, and wake up early and fold laundry before work.

Mopping and bathrooms are for someone to do on Friday afternoon. If you work, cleaning help is non-negotiable for those two items alone.

pesek zman

Mon, May 16 2016, 9:30 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

OR

You could lower your standards. (Not you, me)

Lowering my standards is more tolerable to me than having cleaning help.

My husband does the cleaning and laundry. Is it perfect? No. But either is my cooking and he's not looking to hire a chef. Neither suit our lifestyle or our budget right now. So we lower or standards and sleep well knowing that we are not living outside of our means.

That's what we do

Coffee Addict

Mon, May 16 2016, 11:01 pm

pesek zman wrote:

I'm impressed with you!

sourstix

Mon, May 16 2016, 11:31 pm

welcome to the club! I have come to terms with having a mess bec young children create a bigger mess then one human being can deal with. your dh needs to understand that kids create more of it then you do. and if it bothers him he can help you. its not fair for him to be angry at you. you can say to him that you are trying and it hurts when hes being judgemental. when your also working out of the house. he needs to appreciate that. its not your job to bring in parnasa. it bothers me that hes angry more then the mess. I would deal with that first.

with the time men usually get used the mess or hire help when it bothers them. being angry at a wife that is trying her best doesnt give any results.

amother

Pumpkin

Tue, May 17 2016, 9:15 am

its nice that you all feel like cleaning help is the last expense to go to me its a first I have had on and off cleaning help depending on our budget. I work full time from home with kids in my home which =2x the mess I do try and get my kids to help they are not on the old enough side to fully help yet my dh helps when he can but also works a lot of hours. we also don't use disposables which means washing a lot of dishes but cuts of a big expense of paper plates and such . so Landry piles up sometimes untill I get it done an my beds dont get made I do easish dinners and I make it work is it hard yes do I wish I had some help worked less hours had a dishwasher yes yes yes but I do what I need to do to keep in my budgut and if I want to just take my kids out to play after school and leave the mess I do that too