I'm sick of the profiling in the stores

debsey

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 12:13 pm

Chayalle wrote:

You know, I used to feel that way about a certain store in Lakewood - that the proprietor didn't give me the time of day, and somehow I felt that this wasn't the case with other, more wealthy-looking patrons.

I continued to shop in the store only because I really did find some things I was looking for.

As time goes on, I've gotten to know the proprietor a bit better - or maybe she knows me now - and she's actually quite pleasant and has also been helpful. Can't say she's my type or my favorite person in town, but she has been nice and I've gotten my needs met, at least sometimes.

Maybe my first impressions were just....first impressions?

Not saying this kind of behavior doesn't exist in stores...but in terms of the individual, maybe she was just busy? Maybe the other person who walked in after you but got helped first had called about something...or was a frequent shopper whom she knows personally, or is her best friend's DIL, or whatever.

There can be some room for Dan Lkaf zchus here.

Me too! This has always been a pet peeve of mine, being "profiled" in stores. And like OP, I don't usually dress like I have major money to burn, but I can actually afford to invest in quality.

I once met the proprietor of one store where I used to get this feeling the most in a social context, and in our conversation, I mentioned this to her. She was HORRIFIED. She offered me a private appointment after hours, just to make up for it, and she gave her saleswomen a big speech about how when they do this, they are actually stealing from her.

Sometimes, when this happens, it's worth asking to speak to the owner.

Chayalle, you're a nicer person than I am. I have a hard time being DLKZ when this happens. I just remind myself that this 19 year old kid is earning 12 whole dollars an hour, so she really needs to use this snobby stance to intimidate me. Her entire claim to fame is that she works in UPSCALE BOUTIQUE XYZ. Then I just insist on service. I might even say "I kind of doubt your boss is paying you to update your Facebook. I can call her to find out, if you like. I'm on a tight schedule, please find me whatever...." I'd rather catch flies with honey, but I have no problem addressing this type of thing directly.

Fox

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 12:29 pm

happybeingamom wrote:

When I go into a store and I don't look like their clientele I will specifically say I am looking for such and such and I was told, saw advertised that you carry it. The salesperson nows know that I am not there to waste their time but am a serious shopper.

Sometime salespeople are careful because they have been burnt with people wasting their time. Be Don L'Kav Zchus

It's kind of a circular problem in many places. Customers go way, way too far with "the customer is always right" attitude. Merchants, especially small merchants, then become thoroughly cynical about their customers. Not only do they not want to waste time, they don't want to serve customers whom they suspect are going to be more trouble than they're worth. And that, however unfair, leads to profiling and just general bad service.

I think most of the people who post on Imamother are not guilty of this, but I'm shocked by how many people I see who treat commercial transactions as some kind of contest. Obviously, some settings allow price negotiation and others don't. But even if some negotiation is permitted, it's not necessary to grind the seller into the ground. The goal is to arrive at a price that the buyer can afford and which still allows the seller to make a profit.

And this business of arguing with a shop owner about whether something "should" cost $X or $Y? I don't understand how people can be so ignorant and still walk erect! If something is outside of your budget, don't buy it. If you suspect that the seller is attempting to profit excessively, then buy it from someone with a more modest profit margin. Just don't bring a bunch of Leninist economic nonsense into every single mom-and-pop store.

All that said, some merchants think that they increase the aspirational value of their products by acting like snobs. I can see kicking around that idea in corporate LVMH meeting. For some little independent boutique, it's just laughable and sad.

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 12:54 pm

I do agree that the young sales girls have no clue what they are doing. They just have a job.

For example - if I'm in a store making a purchase and the saleswomen helping me runs off to take a phone call - either private (not an emergency) or to answer question over the phone - it is highly unprofessional. But I don't think they know any better. this happens to me multiple times, just this week I was shopping and the women helping me just disappeared for 5 minutes and when she returned she apologized that she had a customer on the line.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 6:52 pm

I have lived in Lakewood for close to 10 years and have never shopped in any local stores. I am just not much of a shopper. I recently shopped at 4 stores, all of which gave me the feeling that they were doing me a favor by allowing me to shop at their establishment. This was done twice over the phone and two times in person. I watched the sales person ignore three people who came into the store while I was there regardless of how they were dressed or how they looked. I think this is a feeling that frum Proprietors in Lakewood have. I understand that parnasa is from Hashem but if hashem is literally sending the parnasa to your store do not actively push it away. After that I went to a small privately owned furniture store owned by a non-jew he was helpful friendly and had great service I would go back there in a heartbeat can't say the same for the frum establishments. Oh and by the way I spent over $1,000 in every store.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:11 pm

It's not just clothing stores or car dealerships, either.

When I bought my first house, it was a "fixer", and by that, I mean I had to pretty much gut it and rebuild from the studs up. I spent a LOT of time and money at Home Depot, but was really unhappy with the service. I'm slim, pretty, feminine, and put together, which of course means that all I'm good for is picking out paint colors. Rolling Eyes

When I went in with a friend of mine, the service was amazing. She's a big, scary looking, butch lesbian, in ripped jeans and flannel shirts. They took her very seriously. I guess she was "one of the guys" to them.

Then we discovered McClendon's Hardware, and never looked back. McClendon's treated me like I knew exactly what I was doing, with absolute respect, and total professionalism. I never detected so much as a sigh or an eyeroll, and I was never asked stupid questions like "are you sure this is what you're looking for?"

cnc

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:16 pm

Carmen Luna wrote:

Whats ridiculous is, that when I go into a Jewish store I get attitude event though their most expensive outfit isn't more than $500, but when I was in Vegas, I stopped into one of the biggest jewelers and the salesman didn't hesitate to show me a... wait for it.... $4 MILLION DIAMOND RING!! Same thing in Rodeo Dr. in Beverly Hills, they show you 80K dresses as if you are Kate Middleton

This is so true.
I went into a Chanel store in Rodeo Drive and was admiring an $80k pair of earrings. The salesman opened the case so that I can try them on even thought I made it very clear that I have no intention of purchasing them.

amother

Goldenrod

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 7:55 pm

amother wrote:

It is not exclusive to Jewish stores, many stores have this approach...

I know that in one department store, when they train in the salespeople, they teach them the small ways to see if someone is wealthy and lavish attention on them. For example, nice clothing doesn't necessarily mean someone is rich - on Sunday, lots of people get dressed in their best when going out. So one way to distinguish is to look at the customers nails - are they well groomed, because the average shopper can't necessarily afford to groom their nails on a regular basis.

That's a terrible way to profile. My nails don't look good because I can't be bothered to maintain them and my husband thinks nail polish is silly. Anybody who judges my nails is going to lose out on a sale...

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 8:44 pm

Anon because I've told this story many times.

A friend of mine is a PA and an attorney, and her husband is also very successful (read:money bags). Her mother lives in Boro Park, and she lives in Queens. She typically dresses like the regular, down to earth woman that she is, but when she is in Boro Park helping her mother, she dresses way down because she knows that she will be getting messy, wet (helping her elderly mother shower), gross with cleaning supplies. So on this day, before she went to her mothers (in other words, she was still clean, but dressed in a casual denim skirt and sweatshirt), she decided to go into a store on 13th ave and do some shopping. She was in a shop, asked a sales lady for help and the woman glanced at her and waived her over to the rack that may have what she wanted, but didnt bother to assist her. Then a woman who was much better dressed came in, and 2 sales girls went to help her.

So my friend who is modest as well as down to earth asked for help again, louder. Still ignored. At this point, she announced that she makes more money in a week than anyone in the shop makes in a year, and that she has 4 teenage girls who need camp clothes (all true, but not typically something she announces) and she left the store. The salesgirls followed her out, asking her to come back, but she refused - and told this story to everyone, with the name of the store - which is how I know the story.

Sick.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 9:27 pm

I've worked in a gift boutique out of town where people actually come in and buy items worth hundreds of dollars... then I had the few customers who bought only a $2 pack of stickers... I never judged a customer based on their clothing, mostly because you just couldn't tell until they whipped out a black card but also because, hello, I'm here to make every sale (and keep the merchandise moving), regardless.

But I'm having a lot of fun reading everyone's stories so keep em coming LOL

Unbelievable as they are, each one is unfortunately just so believable. Recently I've tried to force myself to just shop Jewish, pay the exorbitant prices and have things to wear but complete lack of customer service (or worse, way too pushy when I just want to browse), inability to return anything for a refund, and inflated prices remind me why I only shop in the mall.

debsey

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 10:00 pm

It's so sad because I'd love to give parnassah to a fellow Jew. But I frankly don't have the time to change into my longer sheitel and fancier clothes just to get quicker service. I'll shop online - Nordstrom has the best return policies for online shopping and the most helpful, courteous staff. I honestly would shop locally if I knew I'd get efficient, friendly service.

There's one store in Lakewood that I constantly patronize just because I always get nice quality service whenever I go in, no matter how I'm dressed (Styled Child) and it's practically the only frum store I end up patronizing, even though I'd probably buy a slightly more upscale line of clothing than the one they sell. But I'm not going into one of these "boutiques" just to beg for service!

amother

Apricot

Thu, Jul 28 2016, 10:42 pm

OP- a few years ago I was looking for a dress for a specific event. I went to a few upscale stores willing to spend whatever it took to get the right look. Turns out that I went to Fashion Stop not thinking that I would find what I wanted and the owner was so nice and helped me for a long time. I turned down so many things but she was nice and kept bringing me more things to try. At the end I walked out with a great dress that made me feel so good about myself for a fraction of the price I would have paid elsewhere. They even told me that I could go home and get a second opinion. So I would recommend that you try there since I had a good experience when I most needed it.

Also for the most part, I think people are just lazy and would rather not have to help you unless you really ask/beg.

amother

Blue

Fri, Jul 29 2016, 12:17 am

I agree about Styled Child..they have great customer service. I also liked Jolly Bean's customer service but she closed her store. I loved shopping there for my son's clothes.

"His place Junior" in Lakewood also has good customer service and they are very helpful when I come in to shop.

There is one specific store in Lkwd that I hated shopping in because the owner had such an attitude but I did like her clothes so I would shop there sometimes but at one point, I stopped going there because I would rather go shop somewhere where my business is appreciated.