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Forum -> Parenting our children

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amother

Vermilion

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:29 pm

Maya, where do you live that it doesnt happen? and how do you know for sure that your kids are safe?

Maya

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:29 pm

amother wrote:

well my brothers make it like it happened in all schools with all their friends. boys who had parents who for whatever reason were not the type to stick up for them respectfully were abused. now they were saying that officially those rebbeim dont work there anymore and the school is cracking down on it but this is what happened.. and parents didnt necessariy know. so who knows what is happening now??

Maybe your brothers didn't have friends in a variety of schools, only in one kind.

5*Mom

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:37 pm

nursemomma wrote:

At the risk of being Banging head

, I would like to offer another perspective.
The article truly saddens me, and is an unfortunate tragedy. However, blaming the Cheder system ain't the answer. We are in galus, and yes, abuse- physical, emotional and s-xual, is rampant. In our communities, as well as in the world at large. How many public school teachers have been arrested for rape? Or physical abuse?
While our community does have a large problem of covering up for perpetrators, there is a much greater awareness today than years back. Abuse is an epidemic in our galus; no one is safe (and that includes chassidim, MO, litvish etc. ) Don't kid yourself that your children are safe because you exchanged one lifestyle for another. We all need to be alert and aware to keep our families safe.
May we all find peace and safety for our families with the coming of moshiach very soon Hooray

Yes, abuse exists in every community but there are factors unique to the chareidi school system that make it especially hospitable to pedophiles and physical abusers, some of which are:

Rebbe positions are open to literally anyone, no training required. The personal investment in time and money required to become a credentialed teacher would filter out at least a percentage of potential abusers who are looking for easily accessible victims.

The emphasis on respect for teachers and principals under all circumstances to the degree that saying no for any reason is considered the height of chutzpah and will get a child severely punished maintains the extreme power differential that allows and perpetuates abuse and prevents children from disclosing it.

Extreme societal pressures ensure that even when a child does disclose, his parents will be afraid to report abuse to anyone for fear of communal repercussions not limited to having their children kicked out of school, having their name smeared, and difficulty with shidduchim, so the abuse of other children continues.

These are all factors that can be addressed but only if we are willing to take a good hard look at ourselves and acknowledge our shortcomings.

Maya

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:37 pm

amother wrote:

Maya, where do you live that it doesnt happen? and how do you know for sure that your kids are safe?

I know without a doubt that my kid goes to school and does not fear that he may get yelled at, or hit, or in any way physically or verbally assaulted or abused, or even remotely threatened with any of it.

He has been in Cheder so he knows that such things can happen, but I'm almost sure his classmates would think you fell off the moon if you told them that kids get physically punished by teachers in some schools, that's how far it is from their comprehension. I'm pretty confident of that.

amother

Ecru

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:39 pm

Does anyone know if anyone tried approaching the Belzer Rebbe over so many years?

Has the Belzer Rebbe commented about this, now that he definitely does know?

heidi

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:40 pm

amother wrote:

Does anyone know if anyone tried approaching the Belzer Rebbe over so many years?

Has the Belzer Rebbe commented about this, now that he definitely does know?

This has nothing to do with Belz specifically. They were just the ones to get caught.

amother

Ecru

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:44 pm

heidi wrote:

This has nothing to do with Belz specifically. They were just the ones to get caught.

Whether it happens equally often in other schools is totally irrelevant.

This was going on for many years in a Belz school and the Belzer Rebbe should make some kind of public statement, and take a stand, I think.

amother

Slategray

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:44 pm

I do know that belz doesnt have a talmud torah in tel aviv. Ihere is one yeshiva gedola in tel aviv. thats boys 13 and up and there is a huge wall surrounding it for the boys not to get an eye on whats going on in tel aviv. I mean the shmutz. so this chaider thats there is definitely not belz. there are no belzers living in tel aviv. I dont know which yeshiva that is. possibly machnivke.
[b]It still doesnt matter. what they have done is a crime. end of discussion. period.
[/b]
I do think things have changed in terms of abuse these days. as ive mentioned I pulled ds out of yeshiva here in lakewood 3 weeks early because ds was experiencing abuse. thank goodness there was no hitting. can you imagine how much worse it would be? but the emotional abuse is disgusting. I will never forget this rebbe telling me that my son is making his life a living h*ll. and how can a 7 year old do that to an adult? hes a normal seven yr old that has some issues. ds is a brilliant kid with social issues. oh I forgot to say he will be having an eval pretty soon. by a top neuropsychologist. ds has been in a different school and never have I had a rebbe speak to me this way and experience such stupidity of a mechanech. can you imagine the stuff he probably told ds if this is how he is speaking to me?!

hurray to me that I did the right thing and took my kid out of school. I am impressed that I had the courage. I am normally so not that way. but when it comes to abuse oh no! I will put my foot down. thats what happens when you have too much experience.

pond user

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:46 pm

heidi wrote:

This has nothing to do with Belz specifically. They were just the ones to get caught.

Excuse me?? Just the ones to get caught???? This is absolutely sickening. If they were the ones to get caught, then their leader needs to stand up and say something to warn others who dare to do the same. He should state that such people are not welcome in his sect because let's be honest now, if they're around the next generation they can only cause a generation of children who leave Judaism and for a jolly good reason!

Pft. Got caught indeed.

amother

Slategray

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:47 pm

eventually I will have to expose this school and let others know. I just feel its the right thing to do. I never spoke to other parents about whats going on. but in the new school I will have to make some connections with other parents as I think that would help.

5*Mom

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:48 pm

Maya wrote:

When one of the teachers at ds's Mamad school (Israeli Religious public school) forcibly dragged a student by his arm out of her class, all the kids told their parents, all the parents freaked out and the teacher was disciplined. The culture is so different in that system that things would never get beyond one or two isolated incidents.

Maya

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:49 pm

pond user wrote:

I wish I could be so naive about this.

What if I told you that a big part of the blame for the behaviors of these melamdim lies in the leaders in the first place... They know perfectly well what's going on in their schools.

heidi

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:51 pm

My son goes to a dati leumi school where a teacher once pushed a kid. In 8th grade. That kid's father was there with the police within an hour.
And that my dear, is why it is exclusively a problem in xenophobic charedi society.

sourstix

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 12:54 pm

I am going to double check if this yeshiva has anything to do with belz. knowing stuff about belz that the belzer rebbe is very into getting real good mechanchim in belz yeshivas. this doesnt sound like it fits belz at all. whatever the name is it really doesnt matter. what matters is that such a thing happened and it went on for so long.

amother

Ecru

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:02 pm

Maya wrote:

Who is gaining by letting this continue? And what are they gaining?

Maya

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:08 pm

amother wrote:

Who is gaining by letting this
continue? And what are they gaining?

The leaders.
They need to keep their masses subdued, fearful, brainwashed, depleted of self confidence, and ignorant in order to keep the power over them. Otherwise they'd leave for a more pleasant life. Much like cults.

amother

Seafoam

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:11 pm

Someone wrote two pages back that in her experience charges aren't pressed because parents dont go to police against the advice if doctors and therapists. Does anyone know if there is mandated reporting in israel?
I believe the nechemia weberman case went to trial because the school social worker that the victim went to, told the police. Even though the victims parents didnt want to press charges, weberman was still arrested.
Can anyone shed some light on these situations.

amother

Teal

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:19 pm

amother wrote:

The social worker was a non-chassidic woman, and the school was a non-chassidic school in Flatbush.

Most chassidish schools I know don't have school social workers/guidance counselors.

sourstix

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:19 pm

they get to have their kavod, money.

look in the newspapers that come out weekly and see the amount of kavod the society gives them. its unbelievable. if society wouldnt support them they would long be gone.

read the blatt the yid the bobov newspapers there are so many look in the jewish groceries in brooklyn and lakewood and see it for yourselves. its sickening.

every little place these leaders go to gets pictured and then goes in the newspaper for others to see. why in heavens name do I need to know where they went for vacation? that they went to switzerland. why do I need to know that? that they went to florida? if its not ok to see immodest women why are they going to the places that have that in large amounts? what are you preaching? if the rebbe goes then the chasidim go. I understand that some of them were great people that went. but didnt they realize that whatever they do their chasidim would? and this is about one of the rebbes that I wont mention names but was someone great. so I dont have an answer. I know what my father says "oh the rebbe didnt go for the same reason you would and he wouldnt do the same you would and on a rebbe you dont ask questions" thats how I was bought up. you dont ask questions on a rebbe. unfortunately todays generation has too much to be questioned and just cant be looked away.

some of the leaders I mention here are not alive and he was a role model. in this area I wont understand. he was someone that when you watched his behavior you would most definitely see a role model. this was one thing I never understood. if you need a vacation there are ways to do them without putting such issues on.

sourstix

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:20 pm

chasidishe schools today do have social workers. mine does. and I know of quite afew. oh they are not worth a lot. but thats a separate issue.

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