SPINOFF: poor middle class and moving to ISRAEL!? slash vent

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 12:05 pm

im in my early 20s recently married

I know my husband and I will be considered middle class, which essentially is the poorest class.

my friends who dont want to work, have easy lives because they get everything free.

I dont want that to be me. I enjoy working, at least now while I dont have kids.

it would be nice to get free stuff from the government, but that will never ever happen. I see my husband and I making a total of maybe $140k a year together down the line maybe an extra few thousand in bonuses.

we are considering moving to israel, because life just seems cheaper there. no I do not want to move out of new york. I like seeing people, I like my kosher supermarkets within 5 min walks, yes this is a luxury but I am not looking to lose that anytime soon so going out of state or out of town is out of the question.

if I would move anywhere it would be ISRAEL.

so now I am asking those who have lived in town in the past and currently live there now, or who HAVE lived there and came back. whats life like there financially?

forget about prices of homes.

im talking tuitions, food bills, medical bills, utilities, ETC.

I know pay isnt as much there. but im trying to balance here. because I dont see myself paying over 50k a year in high school tuition. I dont need lifes riches etc. but I dont want to be worried about every penny either, and thats what I see my life looking like in 10 years from now (hopefully not but realistically- yes) why is being a jew so hard!!!!!! ugh!!!

speak up ladies!!

FranticFrummie

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 12:19 pm

This is just based on my first year here. I'm sure that more experienced Israelis will chime in also.

Tuition - dirt cheap
Medical insurance and copays - super cheap
First year of ulpan - FREE
Fruits, veggies and grains - cheap (and the produce quality is excellent here, but seasonal. You won't find so many imported things year round, like in the states.)

Bus, taxi, and train fares are moderate.

Meat is expensive. Medical stuff not covered by insurance (like glasses) can be expensive.
Housewares and furniture are generally poor quality here, imported from China. If you have good quality stuff, bring it in a lift.

Don't bring anything that needs to be plugged in. A converter will just fry everything, so plan on buying new electrics when you get here, but DO bring your computers and cell phones.

Water and electricity is expensive, but you can find ways to keep your bills low, and I find that things like tuition offset the cost quite a bit.

Rent, don't forget that arnona is added on, so make sure you ask how much TOTAL. Also, location is everything.

Kosher stores are everywhere, but some heksherim are more reliable than others. Depending on where you are holding, it can be extremely frustrating. I miss simply having OU stamped on everything, and reading all that tiny Hebrew print can get annoying.

Most importantly, the mitzva of living in Eretz Isroel is PRICELESS!

So, that's it off the top of my head. Hope it helps.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 12:23 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

this is so so helpful. thank you so much. this makes me want to move there even more, ah! getting excited. I need to figure out where I would live! my friends are all telling me I am running from reality, but I really dont think so. I think I would be very happy in israel.

amother

Lime

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 12:37 pm

You just need to realize that when people say salaries are lower here they mean drastically lower. You basically make in shekel what you would have made in dollars. Someone who makes 20,000 shekel a month is making a ton of money - and few people make anywhere near that with the exception of a very few including commuters and those with American jobs. What is your field? The job market here is tough (if you are in accounting or high tech thats a different story... lots of jobs with good pay). Aliyah is amazing but you also need to go in with your eyes open.

amother

Amber

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 12:37 pm

some things are cheaper
somethings are more expensive
you will make a lot less money
there is less peer pressure to have a lot of luxuries

A biggie that most people forget - the taxes are REALLY HIGH. So even though you pay less for medical insurance, tuitions and utilities - once you make a semi-decent salary you taxes get really high.Basically all those things are subsidized so you are paying for them with you taxes.

Housing is much more expensive (and much smaller).

Maintaining a car is considered a luxury.

I think its dumb to move only for finances- most ppl. I know who did it only because of money ended up in the states or just really unhappy.

If you are considering it for idealistic reasons as well as financial its a different ballgame.
I love it here- but its a harder life financially. Don't kid yourself.

amother

Amber

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 12:55 pm

I grew up here. Let me give you actual numbers

My mom makes between 15-30,000 NIS a month, which is AMAZING but then pays 40% tax!!!! And she has 6 kids at home ( a man would pay a higher percentage)

Tuitions are a LOT cheaper but its still money. For 6 kids it comes out to 5,000 NIS.
That leaves 5,000-7,000 NIS a month from her salary.
My dad makes about 3,500 NIS (after tax).
The mortgage is 4,200 NIS(before arnona)
Maintaing a car cost 1,000 NIS a month (crucial for my moms job)

That leaves 6,300 on a good month for someone with a high paying job.

We are newlywed. My DH is learning - he brings in 2,500 NIS from kollel (tax exempt).
I make 1,000$. We only need to pay bituach leumi which is 10% of my salary.
Our rent is 3,400.

So when you are young/small family life seems a lot cheaper. But as soon as you have more kids and are making more money it's not necessarily easier.

BUT AGAIN. If you want to move here for idealistic reasons and are trying to swing it financially I don't think it is much harder here then in the states- only the standards are much lower.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 1:03 pm

amother wrote:

I feel like the standard of living is a lot easier also, correct me if im wrong. there isnt as much competition (I dont feel that now, but I probably will when I have kids whos friends have the cool shoes and the cool clothes and the newest ipads and iphones etc.)

from what I see from my cousins, there isnt much "branding" or having to always compete with your neighbor. many live in apartments etc.

I am not spoiled and I do not expect much, but I do want to enjoy life without worrying about whether I can spend $20 on a shirt and I dont want to constantly be budgeting my whole life.

side note:

I am not considering moving just because of financials, although that IS a major one. I think my kids would grow up there happier, it just seems so fun there, I know a lot of people say "I would neverrrrrrrr raise my children in israel, the mentality is sooo off"-which I still dont udnerstand. I just think overall I would be happier, and I am pretty bored of NY already.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 1:16 pm

amother wrote:

this is helpful thank you. it doesnt seem so bad. definitely not as bad as life in NY

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 2:17 pm

An important factor is what your professions are:

1. Employ-ability and salary potential

2. Flexibility needed to raise a family. If you have young children then you'll need at least one of you to be able to make it to aftercare pickup. Unlike the Israeli's you won't be able to ask Grandma or uncle to take care of the kids.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 3:59 pm

To OP, amber amother's post is not always typical of salaries and living.
It really really depends on your occupation.
Also, when you said that your friends said you are running away from reality, dont ever move to israel because of financial reasons. Yes, there is less "keeping up with the johns family, but people definitely do budget. Again, it completely depends on your professions.
What do you and your husband do? That will make a BIG difference one way or the other.

5mom

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:27 pm

Don't move to Israel for financial reasons.

Move because you want to be part of Hashem's plan for the Jewish people. Move because you want to live on holy ground. Move because you will have the privilege of observing mitzvos you would not otherwise fulfill. Move because you want to share the joy and the pain of am yisrael.

When you see your life in those terms, you're a lot less likely to be bothered about whether you can afford a new top.

I don't mean that Israelis walk around in some kind of religious trance all the time. We make supper, do laundry, drive carpool and pay the mortgage. It's just that we do these things as part of a larger goal. And that has made all the difference.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:28 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I am a paralegal (and sell wigs on the side,not too focused on that its just a side) and my husband is in school for physical therapy (we wouldn't go anywhere until he's done)

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:34 pm

5mom wrote:

Of course that is included in the reason! But right now I'm trying to discuss the financial difference between living in NY and living in Israel. I don't think Israel is some fantasy land where I won't be doing any work and living like a queen lol. I'm just trying to figure out the financial differences/

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:43 pm

amother wrote:

I am a paralegal (and sell wigs on the side,not too focused on that its just a side) and my husband is in school for physical therapy (we wouldn't go anywhere until he's done)

so, if you are a paralegal, I am assuming that you would have to learn hebrew up to the level of being able to work in a legal office to be able to do your job. Thats something to think about.
Also, with physical therapy, that may be easier, not sure though, but that may be something that can be done in the kupot and / or privately.

I personally think you should talk to nefesh bnefesh about the financial side of things.

5mom

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:44 pm

amother wrote:

I hear you. I don't know how much people in your field earn here, so I can't give you numbers. Housing and car ownership are much more expensive here than in the US. Home ownership is especially difficult because apartments are expensive and banks require a big down payment. (Yes it's a pain, but there's a reason Israeli banks didn't suffer in 2008.)

On the other hand, health insurance, education, cellphone plans and basic food cost a lot less.

Much depends on where you live. How's your Hebrew? Would you be willing to train for a new job?

My experience has been that families who come with their eyes open do well.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:47 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I am actually pretty fluent in hebrew so I dont think that would be a huge issue, I might need to learn the terminology of law in israel since the terminology in NY was a whole vocab of its own as well LOL

I wouldnt be closed off to just doing law there, I would see what opens up for me there, but my husband is set on his PT.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:52 pm

5mom wrote:

my hebrew is pretty solid, I wouldnt mind training for a new job.

I know my parents would help a bit with the downpayment of a home and I have a solid amount saved up as well for a larger downpayment

now that were talking about homes, how much are they there anyway? in general....

places I would consider living would be areas of jerusalem...beit shemesh (the more modern one), maybe ranana, I would love to live in areas of the gush but I am a little nervous with all the terror in the area

so how much in average are apartments/houses ?

I really do appreciate everybodys help. this is really helpful.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:57 pm

raanana is extremely expensive. I would assume houses are not going to be cheaper than 3 million shekels.
Beit shemesh, if you are talking about where the anglos mostly live, I am not sure if there are apartments in those areas. That area also will beezpensive, possibly a bit cheaper than raanana, but not a lot.
And the Gush (I live there, if you want to ask anything) is also expensive. Houses that are for sale in my yishuv are going for 2.5 - 3 million shekels.