Non religious wedding poem in Binah

Raisin

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 5:24 pm

Amarante wrote:

As far as I know every person who identifies as Jewish in some way has a Chuppah and breaks the glass. They may serve bacon or lobster but they would have this as part of the ceremony. And I am really just kidding about the bacon and lobster. In general, and his can anyone speak except generally since no one goes to every wedding 😀, patently non kosher foods like lobster aren't served even though the meat might not be kosher and dairy is served at a fleishig meal - I.e., the cake might be made with butter and cream is served with coffee. Reform Jews do consider themselves to be Jewish.

I'm pretty sure most israeli weddings adhere to a basic standard of kashrus, but maybe I am wrong.

happybeingamom

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 6:00 pm

amother wrote:

I am as RW as they come, and I was also a bit surprised when reading it. I don't think she was davka being condescending, just a bit naïve. If she would have been talking about an intermarriage, yes that's a churban. The fact that there are so many non-frum jews is also a churban. But the fact that non-frum jews make such weddings? big deal.
At least they had a chuppa. I actually asked my DH after reading it if all non-frum weddings have a chuppa- he said in EY they have to. (I am curious how it is in America?)

I wish someone would write a poem about some of the crazy, ostentatious, over-the-top weddings in America. Seems some people totally forget that we're in galus.

Abie Rotenberg:The Wedding Song Lyrics

"Katz's wedding consultant Agency"
"Hello Katz, this is Hershkoivitz"
"Hershkoivitz…"
"Ya ya Hershkoivitz, Feivel"
"Feivel Hershkoivitz, how are you Feivel"
"Boruch Hashem, vismachester reb yid"
"I'm fine, what can I do for you"
"I tell you the truth, I called because I get a big mazel tov, my daughter chanie became a kallah
"Ah mazel tov, that's wonderful news , what can I do to help you"
"Well I tell you the the truth, I never made a chasunah before, and I need some advice for what I should I do"
"You came to the right person, come here boys, Mr. Hershkoivitz wants to know how to make a chasunah. Hit it!"

Well the first thing I must say is you're going on display
And what will people think if the wedding isn't nice
None of the neighbors on your block have to know you're in hock
So no matter what it costs it's worth the price

It's worth the price, it's worth the price

Now the kallah's wedding gown should be the talk of the town
Designed from top to bottom just for her
And although it will be June when the heat can make you swoon
Make sure you buy your wife a real nice fur

No your guests will not be bored when they see that smorgasbord,
With chopped liver piled up to the sky.
And the band that you bring in should have 16 violins,
Each one in a white tuxedo and black tie.

The wine I'm sure know it has to be French Bordeaux,
Brought in on a shining silver tray.
And the flowers don't forget should be Holland's very best,
Flown in on the Concorde that same day.

The main course I wont fib must be succulent prime rib
Thick and juicy filling up the plate
Never mind the calories bring on the table Viennese,
The next morning they can starve to watch their weight

The photographer should know how to shoot a video
Everyone invited gets their very own cassette
And no bentchers - that's old hat you can do better than that
Why not give a brand new shas to every guest

You're a mishiga Katz, that's not what I had in mind"
"So what did you have in mind Mr. Hershkoivitz?"
"I wanted something a little little bit more modest"
"I can't hear you"
"I said I wanted something a little bit more modest"
"Oh, you want modest? That's ok, no problem."

So on the invitation write, in a ways that's real polite,
That the women should dress tznius, "if you pelase",
Because we're dealing with a crowd, that is also very proud,
Of how it keeps the laws of modesty.

"So Hershkoivitz what do you say, we got a deal
Hershkoivitz, Hershkoivitz, … he hung up on me, I can't believe, what a nice simple wedding…"

cbsp

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 6:03 pm

happybeingamom wrote:

WhatFor

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 7:43 pm

I disagree with her characterization that this wedding wasn't religious. It clearly was. Perhaps it wasn't Orthodox (I don't know, I wasn't there, but this could easily describe an Orthodox wedding as well), but it was definitely religious. I think ppl need to learn more about what "religious" means.
Secular would mean no rabbi, no brachot, no chuppah, etc. Perhaps it's not possible for 2 jews to have a secular wedding in Israel, but this was definitely not secular.

Edited to elaborate: This bothers me bc I grew up with relatives who are chareidi and relatives who are Conservative. The chareidi relatives always said the Conservative ones weren't religious. This is inaccurate. They certainly weren't orthodox, and they arguably weren't keeping all of halacha, but they were religious, as in they subscribed to a religion. Christians are religious. Muslims are religious. Atheists are not religious. This sort of characterization, to say someone isn't religious when they simply don't subscribe to YOUR definition of religion, bothers me.

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 8:29 pm

WhatFor wrote:

You are correct in your dictionary definition of religion. Though a religious Jew is one who keeps to the same Torah that we received on Har Sinai.

Definition of Conservativea Jew who adheres for the most part to the principles and practices of traditional Judaism with the reservation that, taking into account contemporary conditions, certain modifications or rejections are permissible.

WhatFor

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 9:20 pm

amother wrote:

We use words to communicate with and understand each other. Congratulations, Amother, on having the unmatched courage to anonymously redefine for all English speakers what the word "religious" means in the context of Judaism. I sure hope it catches on!

marina

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 11:38 pm

My lovely poem was recently published in Humanistic Judaism for Progressive Atheists, Poetry Slam Edition. Hope you like it!

Quote:

My Chareidi Wedding Tears

The guests dance, all decked out in the same exact style
I dance too, but inside I cry for the colorless, bleak existence of their lives.

The guests eat, all kosher ritually slaughtered food
I eat too, but inside I cry for the orphaned chicks whose mother's non-free range thighs now decorate my plate.

The guests sing songs of joy and blessings and of praise
I bless and praise too, but inside I cry for the women whose voices are drowned by the sea of misogynistic patriarchy, as pharoh's army was drowned in the Sea.

The guests honor the bride and groom, and wish them well
I wish them well too, but inside I cry because maybe the bride would have been transgender and perhaps the groom would have been gay, and they could have married each other in truth and not in dishonesty.

The glass breaks.
And I cry, and I cannot hold back. I cry for the bride in bondage sentenced to a life of gendered roles and of leaving carbon footprints wherever she goes, from the water wasted on the dishes that she washes to the toxic, non-locally sourced food that she serves to the non biodegradable diapers she will use for her children.

Children, children who will one day become wedding guests. For these I cry.

WhatFor

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 11:40 pm

marina wrote:

My lovely poem was recently published in Humanistic Judaism for Progressive Atheists, Poetry Slam Edition. Hope you like it!

Quote:

etky

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 2:46 am

5mom wrote:

I've been trying to figure out why this poem bothered me so much.

I just realized it's because the author actually merited
עוד ישמע בערי יהודה ובחוצות ירושלים קול ששון וקול שמחה קול חתן וקול כלה קול מצהלות חתנים מחופתם ונערים ממשתה נגינתם
and she was sad about it.

There she was, overlooking Jerusalem, surrounded by the joyous exclamations of a bride and groom, and still she felt sad.

Maybe that's the true churban.

Yes. Talk about missing the woods for the trees.
Not to mention how it echoes the sinat hinam of the churban period.
One wonders why the editors thought it appropriate to publish this piece.
How exactly does it engender ahavat chinam - the rectification of the sin that brought down the Temple, on the eve of Tisha B'Av yet?

etky

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 4:43 am

5mom wrote:

It just struck me as ironic that the chuppah that the writer was deriding seems davka to have been very much in keeping with the spirit of this bracha that depicts how Jewish weddings were celebrated long ago, in the Land of Israel, before the churban: "the sound of joy and the sound of celebration, the voice of a bridegroom and the voice of a bride, the happy shouting of bridegrooms from their weddings and of young men from their feasts of song" - not very sedate and solemn at all. The emphasis seems rather to be on vocal and demonstrative joy, which, according to the writer, was very much evident in the chuppah that she was bemoaning as unseemly and unbefitting the occasion.

watergirl

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 7:04 am

I'm arriving kind of late in the game. But I cant even. And a poster on the Riva Pomerantz thread asked me why I commented that I dont like Bina? "Poems" like this are why. Talk about close minded!
To the posters who commented that people saying why they disliked a poem "stole" her voice - thats what happens when you write something and publish it. The public is allowed to comment, especially when your work is this offensive.

If she had taken out the word "churban" and substituted "shoah", would anyone stand for it? Of course not! But why not? Jews were murdered, starved, ATE THEIR OWN CHILDREN during the churban. And suddenly its ok for someone to compare a jewish wedding to such a tragic event? A jew marring another jew is as bad as someone starving to death? And who is she to decide where the shechina does and does not feel welcome?

So the bride wasn't dressed tzniusly, according to this woman. But considering her flippant usage of the churban as her metaphor, the only poetic device that I can assume she is using correctly is hyperbole. So for all we know, the kallah may have been perfectly modest but her veil was see through. The horror.

Many Israeli weddings are not as solemn as some American Frum weddings. My sister, who is VERY frum, made aliyah 15 years ago and her wedding was Israeli style - so the chasson and kallah were DANCED to the chuppah, no sad flute music needed. There was whooping and cheering.

This woman needs to leave her cozy daled amos a bit more often and see how other jews around the world live. We are all Beloved by Hashem. Every last one of us. She has no place and no right to compare the uniting of two jewish souls to the saddest time in our history.

And I plan to tell Bina how I feel about this. There is no point in writing about it here and then forgetting about it. In my opinion, I feel as strongly about this as I do about any offensive article in Ami.

amother

Apricot

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 8:29 am

OP here
I'm not a frequent poster on imamother at all and am quite shocked at the response of my initial post. While I appreciate I wasn't imagining things and that many people understood my feelings and felt even stronger than me, I want to add 2 things:
1. I cant help imagine the writer reading this thread and crying her eyes out. I have no idea if she used her real name or pen name but some of the posts were extremely strong. as a previous poster pointed out, its ok to disagree with the poem but dont attack the writer. (what a horrible feeling to think a fellow jew was crying on tisha b'av b/c of us)
2. For all those who felt strongly about the poem, please write your thoughts in a constructive manner to 'inbox@binahmagazine.com' Apparently they do take criticism seriously...

watergirl

Tue, Aug 16 2016, 8:32 am

amother wrote:

Can you imagine the kallah or the mother of the kallah reading her published poem and crying HER eyes out that one of her wedding guests came, ate, danced, then trashed them in an international magazine? With friends like that, who needs enemies?