Disappointed in my niece. Shidduch issue.

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amother

Orange

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 2:03 am

My niece is 22 and looking for a shidduch. My sister told me tonight that her daughter just ended a shidduch after the second date because the guy was going bald. It seems that she came home excited after the first date when they had gone to a lounge. The guy kept his hat on the whole date but a lot of things seemed to match up well for both of them. My niece says that she likes him and she sees many qualities in him but she can't get past this issue. Is this acceptable or should we try to push her to continue?

DrMom

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 2:09 am

I think she's being silly. Your sister could approach her and discuss the relative importance of physical appearance vs middot, but she is an adult and has her own opinions.

I don't know how she would react to her aunt lecturing her about such matters. Does she even know that her mother discussed these details with you?

amother

Denim

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 2:12 am

I am married for several years and my DH was also going bald when I meet him. I tried to look past it and did marry him. He is the most wonderful husband BUT I hate the fact that he is balding I close my eyes when we are together because looking at the top of his head makes my stomach churn. It ruin my intimate life with him. Yes I know that even if he had. A full head of hair when we got married he could have been bald five or ten years later. There is no guarantee of a man keeping his hair , but still it really bothers me !
I know it is shallow , just letting you know from my point of view .

amother

Orange

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 2:20 am

amother wrote:

I appreciate you sharing this. I'm just so disappointed because my niece has gone out with a lot of guys already and my sister sounded so optimistic and excited about this guy after the first date. I figure balding is something she can get used to but I guess even after several years it still bothers you.

MagentaYenta

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 2:36 am

Does your niece know that you've taken her private business and made it public?

heidi

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 2:42 am

I think everyone has things they find totally unattractive and to ask someone to marry someone they find repulsive is ridiculous.
My DH always had thin hair and over 20 years later is pretty bald. It doesn't bother me a bit.
However, when I was dating I positively refused to go out with a guy that was overweight. To this day overweight guys turn me off big time, even if they are really really nice guys.
Why would you try to convince someone to live forever with someone who makes them nauseous?

amother

Beige

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 2:51 am

I think she should go out one more time- if after meeting with him again and getting to know him she still can't look past the baldness, then she should give it up but she should try to see if she can look past it.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 3:05 am

Wait a minute. Boys can insist on knowing a girl's dress size and measurements, and even want a picture of her mother (so he'll know what she'll look like when she gets old), but that's totally OK because "men are visual". Right?

But a girl can't have a single aesthetic preference, and shouldn't be picky with the person who she has to look at for the rest of her life?

No wonder there's a "shidduch crisis"! Rolling Eyes

5*Mom

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 4:58 am

amother wrote:

But the girl isn't asking.

And the girl's mother isn't asking.

The girl's aunt who is way too enmeshed - *disappointed* in my niece; should *we* try to push her - in her niece's dating process is asking.

I am very close with my siblings and my nieces, all of whom have come here for seminary and have spent lots of time in my home, shmoozing and confiding in me. I do not get involved in the details of their dating lives and would not unless my nieces themselves would ask for my involvement or advice. I think there's a boundary issue here. I think OP should take a few steps back and let her niece and her mother sort this out.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 5:38 am

Sure it sounds shallow to reject someone because he's going bald. My guess is that it's not the receding hairline by itself, but just that there isn't enough interest in the first place.

If she really liked him, the baldness wouldn't bother her. If she's not that enthusiastic, then a small thing can get in the way.

Assuming she wants to hear from her aunt (not obvious that she does) you can tell her that she doesn't have to rush. She's saying no now because if she goes on a third date in this system, she'd be making a statement of intent, and she doesn't like the guy enough to get over the hairline. If she got to know him better, she might be able to make a decision based on his personality. No one's giving her the time, so she's saying no, because it's too risky to say yes. I feel for the kid.

amother

Seafoam

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 5:47 am

I would recommend telling her to give it more time, many times people can get used to certain looks after a while, and if she still cant get over it, then reconsider.

Amarante

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 6:26 am

Leave her be.

Whether she really doesn't like bald men or it's something else that she can't put her finger on, it's her decisIon and her right to go with her gut. She isn't asking you for your advice nor as far as I can tell is the matter up for discussion with her mother.

Why is it odd that on closer inspection, I,e, the second date, she was less excited for any reason.

And I am with other posters in that women certainly have the right to be attracted to their husbands. Why are they supposed to overlook anything and men have the right to only choose women they find physically attractive no matter how superficial their criteria might be. The reality is that people have physical tastes and it's fine. I don't like blonde men so shoot me. I don't know if I would say I am repulsed by them by I am never attracted by even blonde actors whereas I find even what some might to say aren't universally Adonis like dark haired men to be attractive. Al Pacino versus Robert Redford although I wouldn't turn up my nose at Paul Newman so there is always an exception. ;-)

Now if someone is willing to overlook every kind of non physical aspect of a person because they are handsome or pretty there is a problem. Or if the standards for attractiveness are so extreme such that a normal looking person is not enough, there might be issues.

In personal life, I see this dynamic with men where I see men who are willing to put up with a lot of bs from a very pretty woman. For most women, the unhealthy dynamic I see is women putting up with **** because the man is wealthy or has other high status aspects in a community. Obviously not always, but superficial men are often led by what is euphemistically called their little brain. Lol.

And disliking baldness in a 22 year old man is perfectly valid. Cross eyes, bad teeth, obesity are all physical and are unattractive to some. Would a boy's aunt involve herself if a boy rejected a girl on a second date for analogous reasons. Attraction is not objective and sometimes can't be expressed logically so people might use shorthand to express. Maybe it is THIS particular bald man who she doesn't find attractive and there are other intangible aspects to overlook so it's the baldness she can specify but the whole package including personality and non-looks related matters isn't enough. It's easier to say he is bald - and even if it is TOTALLY baldness, why doesn't she have the right. There is nothing in this OP in which it appears the niece is in desperate circumstances and therefore doesn't have the right to reject a few potentials.

On a second date, how much can a person really know except surface on paper criteria so it's only fair to allow someone to reject for whatever reason since there really isn't that much to go on that early and if moving further makes a real commitment, then it is a significant point in which one has to cut bait or whatever.

In the secular world, women often don't want to go on the third date because of what that might represent in terms of expectations.

Last edited by Amarante on Sun, Dec 04 2016, 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Pearl

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 7:16 am

Sorry, I can't resist quoting Fiddler on the Roof:
Tzeitel: But mama, the men Yenta brings! The last one was bald, he had no hair!
Golda: You want hair? So marry a monkey!

But seriously, it's not your business and it's not necessarily shallow. Not a good idea to marry someone you find completely unattractive and believe it or not women can have standards too. Also, you may not have the whole story. It's happened many times tgat someone rejected a shidduch for what sounded like a silly and shallow reason when in fact there was a good reason that they either couldn't or wouldn't articulate.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 7:37 am

Amarante wrote:

I see this dynamic with men where I see men who are willing to put up with a lot of bs from a very pretty woman. For most women, the unhealthy dynamic I see is women putting up with **** because the man is wealthy or has other high status aspects in a community. Obviously not always, but superficial men are often led by what is euphemistically called their little brain. Lol.

Exhibit A: Donald Trump! It takes a lot of money and power to get anyone to see past that horrid comb-over and orange spray tan. LOL

amother

Orange

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 7:42 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

Does your niece know that you've taken her private business and made it public?

Made her business public??? Who's my niece? Who's the boy? Who am I? Whay city do we all live in? How is it the slightest bit public if I'm 100% sure you can't answer any of this?

PinkFridge

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 7:43 am

The conventional wisdom, as I learned back in the day, is that if there is some external thing - balding, unibrow, braying laugh, etc. - that bothers you, you don't say no for that reason but keep going out. If there's a real connection, you'll notice it less and less. If you can't get past it, don't continue going out.
And if you're the parent, mentor, etc., you don't telegraph disappointment. If a person can't get past it there's a fair chance s/he's a superficial nincompoop but it's much more likely that this is not a shidduch that's appropriate to push, and that there's something more there, maybe beneath the surface, maybe not.
But saying no after date 2 is simply too soon.

Ruchel

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 8:01 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

Does your niece know that you've taken her private business and made it public?

lolwhut. She is anonymous, or at least I'm seeing her as amother.

Quote:

boys can insist on knowing a girl's dress size and measurements, and even want a picture of her mother (so he'll know what she'll look like when she gets old), but that's totally OK because "men are visual". Right?

Actually I've never encountered that irl, not even the NY shidduchim I tried and failed to set up.

And I would advise her to see him well and without hat before saying no. But if it's mamash not possible for her, then she's allowed to not want.

anotherima

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 8:25 am

amother wrote:

No, don't push her. I have a feeling that we have many divorces in our community because young people have been pushed to get married.

thunderstorm

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 8:26 am

I can understand her, because I remember one of my big issues when I was dating was that the guy should be either my height or taller but not shorter than me. Well I was lied to and was set up with someone shorter because the shadchan figured I'd get passed it. I bothered me very much that nobody considered MY feelings. It was ME who was looking for the right one. So perhaps in your eyes OP this seems trivial,but for someone that has a hakpada it's important to honor her wishes. She may change her mind on her own later but it's wrong for people to tell her that she is being vain etc. Being attracted to your spouse is crucial!

allthingsblue

Sun, Dec 04 2016, 8:37 am

amother wrote:

Your op as well as this post give off the impression that you are meddling into someone's business. "I figure balding is something she can get used to???!!!" What business do you have "figuring" about what she can/can't get used to? This is totally her decision!
No one wants your niece to get married more than your niece! If she didn't like this guy, that's it, it's her decision. She's old enough to get married, so she's old enough to decide who she will marry

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