Pet peeve… Esther was NOT Mordechai’s niece

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 12:47 pm

This has been driving me crazy for years. It says quite clearly in the Megillah that Esther was ‘bas Avichayil, dod Mordechai.’ Unless I’m getting something really wrong, this means that she was his COUSIN, not his niece. Esther is the daughter of Avichayil, who was the uncle of Mordechai.

Nevertheless, it keeps being mentioned here, taught in schools, etc. that Mordechai was Esther’s uncle. Does anyone know why?

Even if this is mentioned in other meforshim, doesn’t the actual passuk carry more weight?

amother

Hyssop

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 12:48 pm

Wasn’t she his wife? Let’s just call her that, what difference does it make if some think she’s a cousin or some a niece. She was a wife.

groovy1224

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 12:53 pm

Same reason people still think you need 2 brachos in shalach manos..it's just a widely reported inaccuracy.

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 12:53 pm

amother Hyssop wrote:

Wasn’t she his wife? Let’s just call her that, what difference does it make if some think she’s a cousin or some a niece. She was a wife.

Ah, but that’s not mentioned in the passuk at all. It’s a midrash, not pshat. What is clearly evident is that she was his cousin. That is the extent of their relationship according to the pshat of the passuk.

amother

Strawberry

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 12:56 pm

amother OP wrote:

THANK YOU!

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 12:56 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

Same reason people still think you need 2 brachos in shalach manos..it's just a widely reported inaccuracy.

Ha. Good one.

SuperWify

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 12:57 pm

I think inaccuracy came from one of the Purim tapes where Esther calls him Uncle Mordechai (which is creepy considering they were married)….

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 1:02 pm

SuperWify wrote:

I think inaccuracy came from one of the Purim tapes where Esther calls him Uncle Mordechai (which is creepy considering they were married)….

I wonder. To the famous tape The Purim Story’s credit, there she calls him ‘Cousin Mordechai.’ Which tape are you referring to?

amother

Hyssop

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 1:11 pm

SuperWify wrote:

I think inaccuracy came from one of the Purim tapes where Esther calls him Uncle Mordechai (which is creepy considering they were married)….

Creepy for our current society but it wasn’t always wrong for uncles to marry nieces, and halachically there’s no issue

Also most countries in todays day and age don’t prohibit it, and even some states in the US don’t either (in RI, your allowed to if your Jewish actually)

chanatron1000

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 1:13 pm

amother Hyssop wrote:

I think it would still be weird to call a spouse "Uncle." Like calling a spouse a roommate - technically true, but not the primary relationship.

ra_mom

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 1:13 pm

SuperWify wrote:

I think inaccuracy came from one of the Purim tapes where Esther calls him Uncle Mordechai (which is creepy considering they were married)….

Our purim tape has her saying Counsin Mordechai...

happy7

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 1:25 pm

The Megillah was written while achashveirosh was alive, there was no way they could have written that she was a married woman.

tichellady

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 1:27 pm

I’m fairly certain some rabbinic commentators say she was his Niece, not cousin and that he was brothers with her father

patzer

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 1:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

I wonder. To the famous tape The Purim Story’s credit, there she calls him ‘Cousin Mordechai.’ Which tape are you referring to?

"Uncle Mordechai" is from Purim USA.
If you've never listened to it, you should!

seeker

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 2:26 pm

I think we had a thread on this last year.
Technically he could have been an uncle from one side and cousin from the other side.

zaq

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 3:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

Also his adopted daughter, which implies that he was much older, which may explain the "uncle" part.

amother

Stone

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 6:31 pm

patzer wrote:

"Uncle Mordechai" is from Purim USA.
If you've never listened to it, you should!

I think this tape says both, in different places

Refine

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 6:41 pm

happy7 wrote:

The Megillah was written while achashveirosh was alive, there was no way they could have written that she was a married woman.

The megillah hints to it. It says "asher lokach loh lebas" which meforshim say to read "lebayis" and a man's home is his wife.

amother

Dodgerblue

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 6:44 pm

I thought only besulos were gathered? If she was married she wouldn’t have been taken.

Iymnok

Sat, Mar 23 2024, 5:09 pm

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

I thought only besulos were gathered? If she was married she wouldn’t have been taken.

It could be it was ANY beautiful woman.