S/o comparing our generation: Smartphones

gp2.0

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 11:27 am

Btw a lot of fears about the internet age are actually premature and unfounded.

For example, book sales keep going up. Despite the internet and our supposedly short attention spans, people are reading more books than ever. And they're actually buying physical books too, not just ebooks.

Also, studies show that people mostly use social media to follow acquaintances but still prefer to go out and spend IRL time with close friends and family.

The internet is definitely a huge time waster. But even in that capacity it seems to fill a gap for people who are otherwise bored or need stimulation. For example, I was on imamother a lot more while I was nursing a baby. People who get busier spend less time on the internet.

Fox

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 11:29 am

gp2.0 wrote:

I've no doubt my teens will dance circles around me in 10 years when technology has advanced even more. (My 7 yo keeps asking if she can have a smartphone when she's 12. I tell her when she's 12 smartphones will be outdated. Lol.) It's so important to have constant communication and conversations about how to be safe online. Filters are important but they're only one piece of the puzzle to staying safe on the internet.

Exactly, and safety is only one issue.

For example, I love the fact that texting, WhatsApp, Instagram, etc., give me a pretty good sense of what's doing with my young adult children. I know where they are, if they're running late, or if their plans change. It saves me a lot of worry that my parents no doubt had.

But that kind of constant contact can be detrimental, too. I'm a pretty laissez-faire parent (too much so, if you ask my DH), but I can imagine that some mothers use technology to be over-involved in their adult kids' lives. We've had threads here about mothers who are upset if they don't get a text back quickly enough, and I recently heard of an engagement that was broken because the kallah felt neglected and hurt when her chosson didn't text back promptly.

I think it has to be an ongoing conversation, and the focus always has to be that technology should be our tool; we shouldn't be the tool of technology.

On a separate-but-related note, if you really want to terrify yourself, investigate what's going on in artificial intelligence. We are getting closer and closer to a time when computers will be making both routine as well as life-and-death decisions for us.

There is a subculture of "preppers" among Silicon Valley elite who are preparing for a time when humans will have to fight machines for our survival, like something out of a sci-fi movie. It would seem crazy were it not for the fact that quite a few seriously smart, seriously knowledgable people who are in the forefront of AI actually believe it's a distinct possibility.

PinkFridge

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 1:29 pm

5mom wrote:

I'm not dismissing ivory tower rabbis. They have much to teach us, but probably more in abstract learning than in everyday life. The internet asifa was called by men who don't pay their credit card bills or make travel reservations or do grocery shopping for themselves - in person OR on line. I am sure they meant well, but by overreaching, they made themselves look foolish. Not a good result.

If you want to influence the world, you have to know what's going on around you.

Here's the thing, going back to my post on p. 1: The medical expert rabbanim, who are asking Rav X who has gadol hador Rav Y's ear, and are then presenting those conversations and psakim, have a clear, pure, unfiltered mesorah. Sadly, we have a situation now of people "quoting" different rabbanim, promoting their own agendas, etc. and don't know whom to trust when it comes to some of these pronouncements. I have no idea how this situation evolved, or maybe I should say, devolved. It only cheapens and disparages great people who can't reign in the spoilers.

The Stoliner Rav was mentioned. IIRC, his approach is very similar to what I and many of my friends do. We have good filters on home computers, are very careful about what kind of phone we get and protect that too if it has any browsing capacity, and are cautious with our children.

ETA: I can Skype from my computer, and am living without WhatsApp. Some things might be inevitable, but I would like to go as long as I can before caving (e.g WhatsApp).

5mom

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 1:41 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Not everything can be blamed on handlers/ askonim/ gabboim.

5mom

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 2:00 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

No. And of course, we have to remember that there are more askanim who are the true "oskim b'tzarchei tzibbur be'emunah" than not. But we can't discount this as a factor either.

But we can say that someone who's relying on a filtered view of the world isn't necessarily in a position to instruct others.

It's fine if someone chooses to be sheltered. Once you choose to limit your world, though, you don't get to be an authority on things outside your sphere of understanding.

PinkFridge

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 2:16 pm

5mom wrote:

How far does this go? Even without filters a person isn't going to learn everything.
And re the medical ethics conference: the gedolei hador who are consulted are having the questions posed to them by rabbanim who have, between their knowledge and constant consultation with the doctors involved, full and adequate information to issue a psak.

And as far as us filtered laypeople, with appropriate filters (that can be overridden if necessary) we still have access, and less distraction.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 5:15 pm

amother wrote:

One small difference. In those days, curious minds went to find things. Today, everything finds them.

That's quite the unsubstantiated claim.

I have unfiltered internet (no smart phone), and everything doesn't find me. I don't get [filth] popups 'cause I don't look at [filth] sites. (I've been on personal computers since '85 and I've never gotten a [filth] popup.)

As to smart phones, I don't have one simply because I don't need one, I've got laptops and tablets that I use. I have to give my oldest DD props, she's a busy working mom and needs a smart phone to stay organized and accomplish all she needs to. My youngest grandson has a cell phone for safety and quick communication with his parents, it can't access the internet and can receive calls and texts only.

Amarante

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 6:37 pm

Is it knowledge that people fear with access to unfiltered internet or [filth].

Like magenta yenta, I've been on the internet for many many years and I have yet to stumble across [filth] or had pop up sites for [filth] just pop up on my computer.

I have an iPhone but really use it much less than my iPad or desktop because of my lifestyle but the worst I have to say is that it can suck up time because I will be reading something and I will become intrigued and want to learn more background and then start hopping from hyperlink to hyperlink.

The internet wasn't around when I was a child but my parents weren't afraid of ideas contained in books either. I am sure my brothers were looking at Playboy just as I am sure the any self respecting boy is probably able to access internet websites if he is determined.

mommy3b2c

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 6:51 pm

amother wrote:

Every yeshiva nowadays has email (not the same as internet but similar). And the yeshiva I work in has filtered internet which believe me, aint so filtered. I think most rabbonim have no problem with filtered internet as otherwise you can walk around withh pictures of naked ladies. Many yeshivas use internet to their advantage, just look around.

You cannot have email without the internet.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 8:24 pm

Amarante wrote:

My parents never censored our reading materials and my father had a huge library of secular works. One of the things I love about the internet is as a child I read encyclopedias and now I have the greatest encyclopedia in the world at my finger tips. But I don't need to carry it around with me in the form of a smart phone. I still carry a book with me when I'm going to an appointment and I may have a wait time.

amother

Emerald

Wed, Feb 01 2017, 10:32 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

But ads aren't exclusive to smartphones. I took my 7 yo DD (who obviously doesn't have smartphone/internet access) on the train yesterday. There was a big sign advertising the "museum of s-x." She asked me "mommy what does s-e-x spell?"

The whole point is to gradually get desensitized to it and ignore it. Otherwise you're in real trouble every time you step out of your daled amos.

I know this is OT, but just curious what you answered to dd? I am always so worried of my dd asking me something like that.

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Feb 02 2017, 12:12 am

treestump wrote:

That is false. The only thing that actively "finds" people online is scams. Everyone has free will online.

If someone is searching "Who wrote the bible" online, or "[filth]" today, yesterday they would have gone to the library to take out the book, and the convenience store or adult store to get their [filth].

Ummmmmmm actually it was on this site that the most disgusting crude pic I EVER saw "found" me. It was tagged onto a link supposedly connecting to a forum college, maybe cope. Still feel nauseous after all these years. Also I once misspelled a very heimishe website n was connected to... Feeling beat up

oh well never mind