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-> Children's Health
Maybe
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 Wed, Feb 08 2017, 10:38 am
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BTW NYS DHO allows minors to get HPV vax without notifying parents
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amother
Vermilion
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 10:42 am
| amother wrote: | | And my great uncle had polio as a bachur still crippled in a wheelchair to this day living in an old age home in Europe never got married or set up a family due to the disability |
How do you know it was polio, maybe it was DDT pesticides ?
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Maybe
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 10:46 am
| dancingqueen wrote: | | Hpv vaccine is one of the most important vaccines out there, since it's one of the few that we actually know prevents cancer. Why would you deprive your children of that? |
It's so important that only 1/3 in USA take it & Japan has withdrawn it's recommendation. 
https://vaccineimpact.com/2016.....ines/
http://www.offtheradar.co.nz/v......html
SIDS just happens at time of 2-4-6 months vax .Autism just happens at age of MMR., loss of fertility just happens at age of HPV shot
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petiteruchy
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 11:10 am
I'll write this story out again, just like I do in every idiotic nonvaxing thread.
I grew up in a developing country. People clearly have a very poor grasp on history (doubly ironic for anyone whose ancestors were nearly wiped out by the disease of antisemitism and who have a vested interest in wanting the general population to a) remember history and b) not downplay the realities of historical events) and a very very short collective memory.
Our great-grandparents were not blase about the threat of vaccine-preventable illnesses. If you feel like there wasn't a wide-spread panic, it was because people became inured to the realities of a fairly large percentage of your family and friends being directly affected by vaccine-preventable diseases. Every single piece of 19th or 18th century lit that I've ever read mentions a vaccine preventable illness in some form or another. And vaccines were developed because of germ theory. Germ theory is the amazing discovery that explained how viruses and bacteria spread.
Remember the Black Death? You know, that time that Europe lost 1/3 of its total population? Well, they didn't have germ theory back then. They honestly had no idea how illness could be contagious. They didn't know that some diseases are airborne, others are contagious through contact with bodily fluid.
The cleanliness and lack of disease you are able to keep in your own house, and that you benefit from in public, are a direct result of germ theory. The reason you don't regularly die from dirty water or contaminated food is because of germ theory. It seems so simple to us now, but it was at one time a revolutionary concept.
The contempt I see in antivax people towards basic scientific principles just boggles the mind. You get clean drinking water flowing into your home. You can take antibiotics after a c-section or life-saving operation and not die of sepsis. You wash your hands after a bowel movement and prevent the spread of food borne illness. These minor actions are all part and parcel of understanding how pathogens work. And to accept these things and yet stick up your nose at vaccines is unconscionable.
Anyway, back to how I was a small child in a developing country. Vaccines are not widespread there yet, as a result of poverty and societal chaos. People literally still get polio and all sorts of other horrific diseases as a result of this. I went to school with a girl crippled by polio. There was a boy with elephantitis who begged in front of my school. My mom employed a cleaner who was disfigured by measles she'd had as a kid. To many people who are alive RIGHT NOW, this is not a theoretical argument. To be so willfully ignorant of the reality of vaccine preventable disease? It is so incredibly selfish and ignorant. You are ignoring the pain of real live people because of some half-cocked pseudo-theory you can't even explain.
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Dandelion1
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 12:12 pm
I don't know about the rest of you, but I was on the fence about vaccines until I read the posts with "PERIOD!" written after important sentences. That really convinced me!
Thanx!
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cnc
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 12:19 pm
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I also don't understand the parents saying that their kids will just suffer with the discomfort of polio for a week. Seriously? Do you know anyone with polio? I do. I have a few friends with grandparents that have polio. Most of them are wheelchair ridden for years ( since they're very young) and have deformed legs.
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simcha2
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 12:27 pm
| Maybe wrote: |
SIDS just happens at time of 2-4-6 months vax .Autism just happens at age of MMR., loss of fertility just happens at age of HPV shot |
Ummm...yes. I am the poster with a child who had a major seizure the day after she didn't get her shots.
Re SIDS, most cases occur between 2 and 6 months.
If you administer shots at 2,4 and 6 months for one third of that time you are within two weeks of having a vaccination (6 weeks out of 18 weeks total). So in one third of cases you could say, "They just got shots, yesterday/last week/two weeks ago"etc.
That does prove not causation.
It just means that for a significant amount of the period when the risk of sids is highest you are close in time to a shot. It doesn't even prove correlation.
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flowerpower
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 12:46 pm
| cnc wrote: | | I also don't understand the parents saying that their kids will just suffer with the discomfort of polio for a week. Seriously? Do you know anyone with polio? I do. I have a few friends with grandparents that have polio. Most of them are wheelchair ridden for years ( since they're very young) and have deformed legs. |
Well... They convince themselves so they can feel less guilty. My uncle has polio. Seeing him struggle for years makes me want to give the polio vaccine even more.
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yksraya
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 1:03 pm
I have mild esthma and I was only partly vaxxed as a kid. My esthma is caused by something else, not those few vaccines.
My brother has esthma due to "untreated" allergies which he had way before he got vaxxed. He only got vaxxed bec the dr refused to treat his allergies unless he is vaxxed.
Some vax have eggs in them that can trigger a reaction if a kid is allergic to eggs. But then the dr either skips those shots, or they get treated like any other allergic reaction. That means, if you think your child has asthma due to the shots, it's actually he had allergies before the shot, so he might've had a reaction, but was already allergic/had esthma before that too.
My severely autistic brother, which was totally normal and did all milestones till age 5, was never vaxxed. One night, he made bizzare noises and since then he started showing symptoms which kept on getting worse as he got older. And guess what, my mom became anti vax although she clearly knew he was not vaxxed thus it wasn't the cause! And to give you all a good laugh: she blames it on "ayin hora"...
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yksraya
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 1:10 pm
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RE SIDS: babies who die from SIDS is because there was something wrong that was undetected and not treated. The risk of SIDS was actually much much higher in the days before vaccines, when medical technology was close to non existant.
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gp2.0
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 1:12 pm
| dancingqueen wrote: | | Hpv vaccine is one of the most important vaccines out there, since it's one of the few that we actually know prevents cancer. Why would you deprive your children of that? |
She was talking about mandated age.
Let's talk Hepatitis B. Hep B is administered to all newborns at the hospital unless you decline, and followed up with more doses as an infant.
However, the chance of a baby contracting Hep B is minuscule, unless the mom has Hep B.
Hep B became mandated for infants primarily because there may be moms who are unaware they have Hep B and can pass it on to their kids.
But a mom who confirmed that she doesn't have Hep B (routine test during pregnancy) and therefore the chances of her infant getting it are tiny to nonexistent, still needs to comply with this. Why? There's time to give this vaccine later on. Her baby isn't in danger. Neither is anyone else as a result of delaying this vaccine. Why not mandate Hep B test for the moms instead? Wouldn't that make more sense?
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yksraya
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 1:12 pm
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RE polio: it's laughable to say it lasts a wk and goes away!!! It is well known that most cases last a lifetime!!! Just have a chat with a polio sufferer or 2.
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SixOfWands
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 1:34 pm
Here's a list of studies concluding that there is no link between vaccines and autism.
https://www.aap.org/en-us/Docu.....s.pdf
BTW, I don't base my evaluation of the dangers of diseases on episodes of the Brady Bunch. Measles still kills about 100,000 children a year around the world. No matter what the Brady Bunch says. (And FTR, they also didn't wear bike helmets
Or seatbelts
I guess that makes those things fine as well.
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SixOfWands
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 2:18 pm
| cnc wrote: | | I also don't understand the parents saying that their kids will just suffer with the discomfort of polio for a week. Seriously? Do you know anyone with polio? I do. I have a few friends with grandparents that have polio. Most of them are wheelchair ridden for years ( since they're very young) and have deformed legs. |
In 1952 alone, nearly 60,000 children were infected with polio; thousands were paralyzed, and more than 3,000 died in the US alone. In fact, 1 in 200 polio infections leads to irreversible paralysis. Among those paralyzed, 5% to 10% die when their breathing muscles become immobilized.
Its really easy to sit at your computer in 2017, with no reasonable fear of contracting polio, and say it wasn't so bad. But it was.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 2:54 pm
I wouldn't be so hesitant about vaccinations except for the evangelical preaching by the pro-vax and medical camp: VACCINATIONS ARE MIRACULOUS!!! WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY WORK BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY DO!!!! IF YOU DON'T TAKE THEM YOU WILL DIE!!!! IF YOU DON'T GIVE THEM YOU ARE KILLING YOUR CHILDREN AND MINE TOO!!! NO THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS IT'S JUST THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE ENOUGH!!!
Vaccinations are a form of prophylactic medication.
And they have side effects, like all other medications.
And for some the side effects are very serious or fatal, like all other medications.
Bad batches and contamination can kill people, like all other medications.
They may be contraindicated for some, like all other medications.
There may be a risk/benefit calculation required, like all other medications.
Unfortunately, the studies on long-term effects is woefully inadequate, because of the insistence that vaccines are perfect and harmless, and because for some reason study design on vaccinations seems to exclude a control group (I.e. no vaccines at all, not just comparing to existing "proven" vaccines).
There are also not enough studies on how to minimize or monitor for side effects, partially again because many doctors/parents believe (note: not "know") that they are completely harmless.
The "vaccine may be a trigger" for problems argument has never been proven nor disproven, but the backlash when it is suggested can feel like a coverup. Suggesting that Teflon might contribute to cancer does not cause such an uproar.
Known methods (spacing out more, not giving combination vaccines, not vaccinating when child is even mildly ill) are not employed very often because "the parents might not come back." I think there are ways around the fear of noncompliance other than increasing the risk of serious reactions...
Bottom line is that those who are anti-vaccine either:
- Are confident in their abilities to treat VPDs (remember that pneumonia used to be fatal too)
- Would rather take the possible risk of getting a VPD than a guaranteed risk of injecting materials into their child's bloodstream
- Feel like the pro-vax party is trying to brainwash them and instinctively push back
- Want more proper testing of vaccines
- Would like to take more safety measures (like one vax at a time) and are not allowed to
- Are only offered "all or none" and do not feel that ALL vaccines are indicated for their child, thus not worth the risk/benefit calculation
- Are on the fence and can't handle the black-and-white thinking of the camps
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Chayalle
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 2:58 pm
| amother wrote: | I wouldn't be so hesitant about vaccinations except for the evangelical preaching by the pro-vax and medical camp: VACCINATIONS ARE MIRACULOUS!!! WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY WORK BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY DO!!!! IF YOU DON'T TAKE THEM YOU WILL DIE!!!! IF YOU DON'T GIVE THEM YOU ARE KILLING YOUR CHILDREN AND MINE TOO!!! NO THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS IT'S JUST THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE ENOUGH!!!
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funny, I wasn't invited to the evangelical preaching. I have never heard any of the above...and I'm pro-vax. I haven't heard that vaccines are miraculous, and I can google a scientific explanation of how they work. And every vaccine comes with side-effect warnings.
Drama much? You lost me in the first lines of your post....
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Laiya
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 3:09 pm
| amother wrote: |
Unfortunately, the studies on long-term effects is woefully inadequate, because of the insistence that vaccines are perfect and harmless, and because for some reason study design on vaccinations seems to exclude a control group (I.e. no vaccines at all, not just comparing to existing "proven" vaccines).
There are also not enough studies on how to minimize or monitor for side effects, partially again because many doctors/parents believe (note: not "know") that they are completely harmless.
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Actually vaccines are probably the most studied medical treatment out there. Including long term effects, side effects, etc.
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SixOfWands
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 3:32 pm
| Chayalle wrote: | funny, I wasn't invited to the evangelical preaching. I have never heard any of the above...and I'm pro-vax. I haven't heard that vaccines are miraculous, and I can google a scientific explanation of how they work. And every vaccine comes with side-effect warnings.
Drama much? You lost me in the first lines of your post.... |
She's setting up a strawman, so she can knock it down and appear reasonable.
The problem, of course, is that all of her premises are false.
The methodology by which vaccines work is well-understood.
The long-term effects and side effects of vaccines have been studied, and continue to be studied.
There have been dozens of studies showing that there is no connection between vaccines and autism, and none -- other than one that used falsified data -- showing that they do. The so-called backlash relates to the lack of so much as a scintilla of evidence, rather than a conspiracy in favor of vaccines.
The fact that people believe that vaccine preventable diseases can be easily treated doesn't make it so. Any more than believing that pneumonia no longer causes death makes it so. Pneumonia is the world's leading cause of death for children under the age of 5, and results in 4 million deaths a year. Its the 6th leading cause of death in the US. Facts are Fun!
With the exception of MMR and DaTP, which are combinations, you can give one vaccine at a time. Why not?
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dancingqueen
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 3:50 pm
| gp2.0 wrote: | She was talking about mandated age.
Let's talk Hepatitis B. Hep B is administered to all newborns at the hospital unless you decline, and followed up with more doses as an infant.
However, the chance of a baby contracting Hep B is minuscule, unless the mom has Hep B.
Hep B became mandated for infants primarily because there may be moms who are unaware they have Hep B and can pass it on to their kids.
But a mom who confirmed that she doesn't have Hep B (routine test during pregnancy) and therefore the chances of her infant getting it are tiny to nonexistent, still needs to comply with this. Why? There's time to give this vaccine later on. Her baby isn't in danger. Neither is anyone else as a result of delaying this vaccine. Why not mandate Hep B test for the moms instead? Wouldn't that make more sense? |
All vaccines have recommended ages. Public health policy decisions aren't made by pulling numbers out of a hat. If you look into it, the recommendation for age of 11 for the hpv vaccine we were discussing makes a lot of sense.
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amother
Vermilion
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Wed, Feb 08 2017, 4:41 pm
| yksraya wrote: | | RE SIDS: babies who die from SIDS is because there was something wrong that was undetected and not treated. The risk of SIDS was actually much much higher in the days before vaccines, when medical technology was close to non existant. |
https://www.periscope.tv/w/1ynJOWLZZNAJR#
Did you make that up today or yesterday ?
How many cases of SIDS before the 60s ?
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