Do you know an 'un'vaccinated child with autism?

Chayalle

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 7:15 pm

amother wrote:

Because the truth is that we never know anything 100 percent. Except maybe you do Smile

I know 100% that the moon is not made of cheese.

And just as clearly, there is no reason to think that autism is caused by vaccines. Or carseats. Or breastfeeding. Or formula.

A bunch of nutty people who were desperate to get something against the MMR, falsified data to get results that they wanted. It was proven false. The only people left with lingering doubts that continue to link autism to vaccines, are those who were so desperatethey simply can't face reality. They are the ones supporting those who spread the lies in the first place.

Oh well. My mother used to say, no use arguing with someone who "knows" better than you.

goldrose

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 7:25 pm

Chayalle wrote:

There's no proven correlation, except for one that was falsified. This is not something I "think" or what people "think" - it's the reality.

Sorry to burst your bubble but there's an ongoing debate. Your confidence in your knowledge being fact doesn't make it so.

There certainly is more than one type of autism, and more than one cause.
Regressive autism is linked to vaccines. I don't care how many (falsified) tests "debunk" this. Thousands of parents who see their kid regress post vaccination are not wrong.
It's not "fun" to link vaccines to autism. What benefit could random parents out there have, for goodness sake?! And, hello: they gave the vaccines! They gave the da-- vaccines! They weren't anti vax! They only stopped after they saw an immediate regression. Kid is fine, goes to dr, gets shots, yells bloody murder, high fever for days, and never the same again.

Believe what you will but I am keeping my family faaaar away from that poison. I'll risk measles any day over vaccines.

Chayalle

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 7:33 pm

goldrose wrote:

The age when symptoms present themselves happen to correlate to the vaccine schedule. I feel for those thousands of parents, but their child's autism was present before they ever vaccinated.

The benefit those random parents could have, is to blame vaccines...because somehow, they find that validating. Like, there has to be a reason! Not, Hashem gave them this nisayon.

My brother was the most adorable, smart baby ever...my mother was the only one that noticed autistic symptoms from an early age, because he was her 9th child and was different. Everyone told her to chill and stop imagining things! But for myself, I would say the same as those parents - that at the age he got vaccines he started to present symptoms. My mother cried when he was a newborn - she said something was wrong - but I didn't notice till much later....

That's just how it is but it doesn't prove anything. Sorry!

SixOfWands

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 7:46 pm

goldrose wrote:

Are you going to risk smallpox? Polio?

Of course not. Because vaccines (B"H) have eradicated, or nearly eradicated, them.

Meanwhile, study after study after study has debunked what you "know." You don't care about that. You know better.

Wakefield, who falsified data, should burn in h3ll. For all of the kids who have suffered from vaccine-preventable illness. And all those kids who are autistic, or will be autistic, because he falsified studies, drawing research away from finding real answers.

Every time its proven that vaccines are not the culprit, people like you change their story. Its thimerosal. There is no more thimerosal in childhood vaccines. No change. No reason to believe vaccine causation. Scientifically unsupportable.

Correlation does not mean causation. I mean, there is a correlation between increased BF rates and increased autism rates, but no one believes there's causation there.

Oh, why do I bother. You don't care what scientific data shows.

cnc

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 7:59 pm

goldrose wrote:

The reason people link it is because everyone likes to have something to blame things on. It makes them feel better. As I've previously mentioned here, I know someone with a few kids that were all vaccinated. One of them has processing disorders and is delayed. She always curses out and blames the vaccines. Never mind the fact that her other four or five kids are perfectly fine and were fully vaccinated. Why she picks on vaccines is beyond me.

I don't blame her - I sort of understand her.
I have a kid with issues too and found a million things to blame it on starting with going into labor early,having a traumatic pregnancy and delivery , having a botched up epidural, vaccines (for a short point- although my kid exhibited the signs way before any vaccines were given but that besides the point) and so on.

Blaming it on something gives me a certain security that I can plan and prepare and try to ensure that it won't happen by the next child.

At this point I'm trying to sit back and let the fact that Gd is in control sink in....
Not everything needs a reason to blame it on.

goldrose

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 8:09 pm

I said my piece and hold by it. I think your opinions are sorely lacking research. No, their kid was *not* autistic before the shot.
Not only that, the government has paid billions in compensation to loads of cases in which they acknowledged that THE AUTISM WAS CAUSED BY VACCINES. If it could happen to one it could happen to many. And indeed it has.

cnc

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 8:19 pm

goldrose wrote:

FYI I wrote a research paper on autism so I think it's a bit inappropriate to tell me that my opinions are sorely lacking research.

Now can you kindly link to a peer reviewed article proving your claim about government giving compensation and acknowledging that autism was caused by vaccines?

Thanks.

goldrose

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 8:48 pm

cnc wrote:

No, dear. Research it yourself.

goldrose

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 8:52 pm

cnc wrote:

And by the way, in your research paper, you forgot to include the link between vaccines and autism.

amother

Amber

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 9:03 pm

I'm an EI therapist and most of the kids I work with have autism. It's a very difficult sad disorder (at least the severe cases). Mothers are constantly asking me and themselves, was it something I did, was it something I ate, was it b/c of a vaccine etc . . . They are just grasping at anything.
I was recently at a meeting with a child who very obviously has autism, but hasn't been diagnosed yet, and the parents are still in the denial phase. When asked if the child was given the flu shot the mother answered " we declined the flu shot b/c I heard it causes autism." It's so off base b/c we all know that the flu shot doesn't cause autism, but it's almost a desperation to have a reason to hold onto, otherwise the parents blame themselves.
I think that once they end denial and go through the mourning phase they can face the diagnosis head on and come to the realization that it's nobody's fault. Like other posters said, Hashem is in control, and it's He who gave it.
For those of you who believe that autism is caused by the flu shot or any other shot, please also remember that Hashem decided it should happen for whatever reason we don't understand. So if you believe it was caused by a shot, then that's the way Hashem sent it (sorry, I guess this last paragraph is a little sarcastic).

MitzadSheini

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 9:03 pm

goldrose - let's say you are right. There IS a causal link between autism and vaccination. (Note - please no one quote me out of context). Then all you are really saying is that for a number of people, Hashem used vaccines as a kind of "hiding" of His power. Because the vaccines in and of themselves have NO power. They have no power to cause autism, but, and this is just as important - they also have no independent power to prevent diseases. Only Hashem can do that.

If both sides of this debate could truly realize that the vaccines have no power on their own, but that all cause comes rom the first cause - Hashem - then I think the vax v no vax debate could be much less heated. Personally I'm a pro vaxer, because it is what is normal and acceptable at the moment. And it is important to explain to non vaxers why you think they are wrong. But to explain calmly, without panic. I am not afraid of the non - vaxers, because they cannot cause my child to get a horrible disease, Ch"v, any more than not vaxing can prevent autism.

Only Hashem can do this.

Laiya

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 9:31 pm

goldrose wrote:

No, the government never acknowledged that.

Do you believe that the consensus of the entire scientific community is mistaken or intentionally deceiving everyone?

SixOfWands wrote:

Wakefield, who falsified data, should burn in h3ll. For all of the kids who have suffered from vaccine-preventable illness. And all those kids who are autistic, or will be autistic, because he falsified studies, drawing research away from finding real answers.

THIS. He has blood on his hands.

simcha2

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 10:05 pm

True story.

We give vaccines. The day after my daughter's 12 month visit she had a twenty minute seizure and ended up in the hospital having many tests including a video eeg, brain mri etc. She was subsequently diagnosed with epilepsy.

It would be easy to say, clearly this was related to her shots. But here is the kicker, she didn't get them! She was sick so the pediatrician said to hold off a couple of weeks. By pure coincidence she had a major seizure less than 24 hours later.

If she had had her shots as scheduled anti vaxxers would say, "see, causation", when in reality they had no relation to one another. It was a coincidence.

Anecdotes don't make science.

I have stayed out of the debate until now, but I truly believe that anti-vaxxers want to believe what they believe and no data driven evidence will convince them, so why try?

All I can say is just because something appears related doesn't make it so.

Lydia

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 1:11 am

This doesn't directly weigh in on the autism debate, but it's a bit of interesting and related food for thought...

Before the smallpox vaccine was developed, parents would purposely expose their children to the virus in ways that they believed would cause only a comparatively mild form of the illness while inoculating against future full-blown infection. This was done in various ways--blowing scabs of other victims into the nose or "threading the pox" by running a needle through a pox victim's blister and then under a healthy person's skin. The mortality rate for this practice was somewhere around 2% (versus 20-30% for a regular smallpox infection).

Isn't it amazing to think of the bravery and fear that would be involved in handing over your little child to be infected with smallpox, knowing that it might save his life but could also very easily kill him? We should be so thankful to live in a world where we do not have to live in that kind of fear, either of constant disease or of the "cures" themselves.

Iymnok

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 4:08 am

Have you seen the smallpox needle? That is a scary device!
I honestly believe that moms don't want to vaccinate their kids due to the uncomfortable feeling of actively causing them pain and the knowledge that they have absolutely no idea what's inside that clear liquid.
The sci-fi and anti-van hype just add to their anxiety.
It's so much easier, emotionally, to just stay home and ignore it.