Do you know an 'un'vaccinated child with autism?

PAMOM

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 7:17 am

Goldrose, part of my career has involved evaluating the quality of research "sources." I, too, have researched whether the government has paid billions of dollars in court cases. Here is an extremely brief overview for those interested: yes, there have been several cases where families who claimed vaccinations caused their children to become autistic have received financial settlements. In at least one precedent-setting case, a child who was given 9 vaccinations on one day developed symptoms of autism that were proven to be the result of an underlying mitochondrial disorder. In other words, the child had a serious medical problem that first manifested itself as a reaction to the multiple vaccinations. Medical research imamothers--you know better than I how to explain the complexities of mitochondrial disorders, but they don't depend on vaccinations to manifest symptoms. In another case (all records have been sealed so we don't have access to primary sources), the news reports stated that the government declined to continue defending the case after 4 years. Maybe this was a good legal decision, maybe not, but it doesn't prove the vaccinations caused autism and there have been no "billions" in settlements withborvwithout admission of guilt/liability.

amother

Gray

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 8:19 am

PAMOM wrote:

Iow, when a defendant chooses to settle a case, that is not the same thing as a finding, or admission, of liability.

sourstix

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 11:08 am

[quote="Shuly"]I think nursing causes autism - because I know babies that were nursed and were autistic.
I think formula causes autism - because I know babies who were given bottles and were autistic.

Hey, we can never know 100% what our children are ingesting and what it can cause so maybe shouldn't feed our kids at all...actually maybe we should invent a food vaccine so that they don't have to eat, oh wait but then we won't know 100% that the vaccine doesn't cause autism...[/quote]

shuly you are make me lol. rolling on the floor. this was so good.

maybe we shouldnt go into a car because we might get into an accident and die. that one is actually alot more likely then autism from vaccine.

Maybe My Family

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 11:08 am

goldrose wrote:

Also, I have zero benefit from connecting vaccines to autism. I don't have any autistic kids bh, nor any autistic relatives. So your silly reasoning holds no water.

And trust me it is because the one above wanted you to have healthy relatives not because you didn't vaccinate them ..... and believe me you are only saying you will risk the measles any day because deep down you know the chances of your child contracting the measles is slim thanks to the many moms who are vaccinating ..... if it would be rampant disease and your baby can g-d forbid contract it and get very sick or worse you would change your tune. Now go ahead and deny it all you want but I won't believe you

amother

Seafoam

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 11:25 am

I have a child who has ASD/aspergers syndrome- whatever the current name for it is - he goes to a regular school. (Incidentally he is my sweetest, most helpful, thoughtful child. I don't think I would want to change him one bit). He was vaccinated, so were my other kids. I think that Aspergers runs in families - I probably have a touch of it, my brother and nephew certainly do. I have a friend with 4 kids and she, her husband and 3, possibly 4 of the kids, exhibit some type of autistic symptoms.

Autism is much less obvious in women so you might have it and never have been diagnosed.

My sister has a child with some type of fairly severe special needs, although he has never been labelled as autistic he definitely shows some symptoms of that, such as a remarkable memory for names. She told me that when he first showed symptoms he had not been vaccinated yet for some reason.

I do think when people talk about vaccines causing autism they are not necessarily referring to Aspergers, but the severe type of autism that requires a special school and the child will be unlikely to ever live independently.

LittleDucky

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 11:30 am

goldrose wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble but there's an ongoing debate. Your confidence in your knowledge being fact doesn't make it so.

There certainly is more than one type of autism, and more than one cause.
Regressive autism is linked to vaccines. I don't care how many (falsified) tests "debunk" this. Thousands of parents who see their kid regress post vaccination are not wrong.
It's not "fun" to link vaccines to autism. What benefit could random parents out there have, for goodness sake?! And, hello: they gave the vaccines! They gave the da-- vaccines! They weren't anti vax! They only stopped after they saw an immediate regression. Kid is fine, goes to dr, gets shots, yells bloody murder, high fever for days, and never the same again.

Believe what you will but I am keeping my family faaaar away from that poison. I'll risk measles any day over vaccines.

Then in real life tell the school, anyone your children play with, the camps they go to, everyone you invite for a shabbos meal etc that you are unvaccinated so they will stay far away if they want from your kids. Many people shouldn't be exposed- cancer, immunocompromised, organ transplants, certain drugs like for juvenile arthritis, lupus etc make people immunocompromised etc. and kids too young to be vaccinated.
If you are so sure of yourself believe in your convictions and let people know! Or you could have just sent that 3 year old girl with leukemia to the PICU.

gp2.0

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:12 pm

To me, the problem with the "vaccines cause autism" argument is that both sides tend to ignore reality a little bit to further their agenda.

Autism is not a singular entity. There is an autistic spectrum with many different disorders, some better researched than others. Some are inevitable, some are triggered by external factors.

There is definitely a genetic component to autism. We just haven't figured out exactly what it is yet, and what causes it to turn on in some people but not in others. One person can carry the gene for autism and won't be autistic. Another person carrying that gene will be autistic. The question is why.

Current theories are that lack of oxygen at birth, exposure to certain chemicals or toxins and other environmental factors can cause autism to "turn on."

Hence the vaccine problem.

Is it possible, that in a child carrying an autism gene, the chemicals in the vaccine can trigger the onset of autism? It's certainly possible. Is it possible that the same child, even if unvaccinated, would still develop autism due to some other, as yet unidentified trigger? Also possible, and in some cases, highly probable.

Thus both statements are true. The statement that vaccines can cause autism is true. The statement that autism can occur without vaccines is true.

The problem with a statement like "vaccines can cause autism" is that it's interpreted by some people to mean "vaccines always cause autism" which is obviously untrue. In the vast majority of cases, vaccines have small or nonexistent side effects. Our bodies are built to handle foreign toxins and in most cases we flush them effortlessly.

So, considering that vaccines have been proven to have little to no side effects in the majority of cases, and considering that autism can be triggered by factors other than vaccines, the statement "vaccines don't cause autism" is also true.

Again, interpreting this as "vaccines never cause autism" is incorrect.

TLDR:

True statements:
1) vaccines can cause autism, in genetically predisposed children
2) autism can occur without vaccines
3) vaccines don't usually cause autism

False statements:
1) vaccines always carry a risk of developing autism (not true for people who don't carry autistic genes)
2) vaccines never cause autism (not true for people who do carry autistic genes and were triggered by vaccine)

cnc

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:17 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

Question- is there any actual proof for your True statement #1? Is there indisputable medical research that backs this statement ?

TBH I agree with most of your post- but just because I agree with something doesn't mean that it's a fact.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:25 pm

Blah blah blah
Vaccines are recognized as relatively safe for the general population intended
So are artificial food additives n house cleaning detergents
It is ok if u decide to ban the latter from ur home- ur decision
It is irresponsible irresponsible irresponsible to ignore the former
Pray ur kid should not be adversely affected by th vaccines
So I don't need to worry about preventable diseases
Ur not living in a vacuum!!
If I am a responsible mother who took a deep breath n had my kid vaccinated
I don't want ur unvaccinated kid in my kids class!

amother

Apricot

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:42 pm

I really prefer to stay out of this debate, but it's getting difficult when I read some of your comments.
Almost everyone who doesn't vaccinate DID at one point vaccinate. There are many many anecdotal instances of regressive autism starting after a specific vaccine. There has not been a SIINGLE double blind study comparing vaccines to nothing. Every study compares new vaccines to current ones, and that is not proof that vaccines are safe or effective. There is not a single medication on the planet without side effects. Why should vaccines be any different? Anyone who says that a certain medication is indicated for use in every non immune compromised person in the planet is wrong. And telling parents that they should blindly trust pharmaceutical companies who literally cannot be sued is wrong.
Vaccines and their adjuvants ( thimerasol, aluminum) have been shown to cause encephalitis, which has been shown to cause autism.
Most if not all the diseases we vaccinate for today were on the decline long before the use of vaccines became popular or mandatory. Measles, mumps, and rubella were all "normal" and not typically feared by our grandparents generation. Google " measles on the Brady bunch" for an example. Many of our generation got chickenpox, and it was normal. Now that women can no longer pass immunity on to their under 1 year old kids ( vaccine antibodies do not pass through breast milk), and now that vaccine induced immunity wanes in adulthood when these diseases are more deadly, getting sick with measles, mumps, rubella, or chickenpox IS more dangerous. However, that is our doing, and it is not the way HaShem set up nature.

Children under 1 have immune systems with poor memories. Any shots given before 1 are pretty much useless, and are meant to "train" parents to bring their children to the dr and to vaccinate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noMHeb3fXhI. While I don't normally use YouTube as proof for something, actually hearing the virologists voices is important here.
I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours reading studies. No, I am not a dr, but I am in the medical field, I know how to read articles. There is definitely something fishy going on with vaccines.

gp2.0

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:48 pm

cnc wrote:

The research is ongoing. As far as I know, vaccines themselves, meaning the administration of the actual disease, have been proven in research NOT to cause autism. The question is regarding the additional ingredients in vaccines. Many vaccines removed troublesome ingredients as soon as research indicated they were problematic. The trouble is that they still haven't isolated every factor that can cause autism. For example research about BPAs is ongoing and I believe the FDA only began advising that it was a risk in the last 5-10 years. Could vaccine packaging have contained BPAs before that? Probably, but so did the baby's bottle and pacifier. And many store receipts and other plastic products still contain BPAs.

Research indicates that even a fetus can be harmed by pollutants and develop abnormally.

Currently I believe they're focusing on the effects of pollution, BPAs in plastic products, pesticides, added "fragrances", tobacco smoke and a few others as factors contributing to autism. Another suspect is infection. Which brings us back to the vaccine problem loop. Vaccines don't cause autism. But can an infection in a child carrying autism genes trigger the autism? Maybe. But every child will have infections anyway, with and without vaccines. So does withholding vaccines make a difference?

In a risk benefit ratio, the benefit of vaccines far outweigh the risk. But that doesn't mean the risk is nonexistent. Personally I was always more worried about and on the lookout for side effects like seizures, high fever, etc.

I don't like giving too many vaccines at once and I prefer to space them out widely, so that they most closely mimic natural patterns of how the immune system fights disease/infection.

I also space them out a little more logically so that infants receive vaccines only if they have an actual possibility of contracting the disease, and as they progress to toddlers and preschoolers I fill in the rest of the vaccines on a catch-up schedule, so that they are protected as adults and contribute to herd immunity.

amother

Apricot

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:50 pm

One more thing- most parents who don't vaccinate are not just "scared of autism." Vaccines affect the immune system in an unnatural way, and the way they bring toxins into the body bypasses many of the mechanisms HaShem put in place to prevent infection. Personally, I am more worried about autoimmune disorders than autism, and I say this as the mother of a hold who is most likely on the spectrum ( yes, he was vaccinated). I love my children very very much. I have several autoimmune disorders, and if I could prevent my children from getting them, I would do anything in my power. Believe me when I say that. When your body attacks your organs, there is nothing you can do to stop it. If my kids get chicken pox, or measles, even polio (asymptomatic in 95% of cases Btw) their discomfort lasts for a week. I have studied every disease vaccinated against, and would love to write up a book about home treatment for them. Of course I believe drs and hospitals can help when needed, but if parents knew simple rules about most of these diseases they could even prevent hospitalizations. For example, vit a for measles, never give ibuprofen for chickenpox. Things like that. These are things even drs don't know, because they are no longer taught in medical school!

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:50 pm

amother wrote:

from the video

Q. So the science seems fairly clear that for the first year of life, probably, that the immunization is not stimulating the kind of response we expect it to stimulate.
A. True.

Please supply links to 'the science' that seems fairly clear.