Trump Wants to get rid of Medicaid

water_bear88

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 4:34 pm

Squishy wrote:

Twice yearly checkups are $380 plus 4 taxis. Anyway, I think they yank certain teeth instead of doing root canals to be fair.

Medicaid recipients should not get routine cabs if there are closer providers. It is an invitation for abuse. Also, it should be required that families coordinate appointments.

I don't see how the actual cost can be that high for twice-yearly checkups. Yes, it's reasonable to make taxis more specifically need-based, but bear in mind that the working single-mother probably can't take half a day off her minimum-wage job to bus all around. I'm sure there's room to cut costs. But if you know of people who are defrauding the program and won't tell, you're complicit to their actions and only have yourself to blame. So you believe you're not allowed to tell- fine, you can still stop blaming Medicaid for your high tax bill. Maybe it's just Hashem testing you to see if you'll give in and be moser another Jew.

Fox

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 4:37 pm

I voted for President Obama in 2008 largely because I felt he would take action regarding health care. I figured it wouldn't be very effective action, but it would at least be a rough draft that could be tweaked and altered.

I did not vote for President Trump because I thought he could miraculously fix the health care crisis, and anyone who did was, ahem, foolish. Nor could Secretary Clinton have fixed it. That's like voting for a President who will suspend the law of gravity so I won't fall on the ice.

The problem is that we want the benefits of socialism and the benefits of capitalism without any of the costs of either.

Sorry, but we're more likely to get Congress to repeal the law of gravity.

Socialized medicine is okay when you have a relatively small group that is homogeneous in values and lifestyle. Otherwise, it tends to become unwieldy and bureaucratic. It also discourages medical research and innovation -- if there is no profitable market for new drugs or treatments, there is no incentive to develop them. Teva Pharmaceuticals is not successful because they produce drugs for Israelis.

Free-market medical care is fine as long as there is a profit to be made and therefore plenty of competitors who will vie to provide medical services and insurance coverage. However, if there are too few competitors for various reasons, the remaining providers can dictate prices, shutting out customers who can't pay.

Whether we choose a predominantly socialism approach or a predominantly free-market approach, people will be hurt. The key is to combine the benefits and costs in such a way that the benefits aren't hurt too badly and the costs are not too oppressive.

I wish I had an answer. I just hope Trump negotiates "RinoCare" into something closer to Rand Paul's vision. At the very least, tort reform, association-based insurance groups, and the ability of groups to negotiate drug prices should be part of achieving a balance.

water_bear88

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 4:38 pm

tigerwife wrote:

I agree with you that everyone should get basic care! But beyond that the pricing is incomparable. I wonder if it's possible to make it work.

I think there has to be a better system, not necessarily perfect. There's a Youtube channel called Healthcare Triage that made a few videos about healthcare systems, with emphasis on costs, in a few different developed countries- I watched them when they first came out a few years ago and should probably rewatch them before discussing. Maybe tomorrow- my pillow is calling my name.

33055

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 4:39 pm

amother wrote:

Op here, and to squishy. My intention was not about somepeople that fraud the government.

You say you wouldn't report any Jew then stop what your doing now.

My intention was very different. start a spinoff of Medicaid fraud if you want. But not here. Thank you!

If you think the local Medicaid offices are unaware, then think again. I am quoting my information as reported by them. If you think the regional and national offices are unaware, think again.

When in certain zip codes, 90+% of Medicaid recipients qualify for designer shoes yearly, while in other zips, the percentage is in the single digits, Medicaid administration is well aware of this.

The Medicaid clerks who interact with the public are not as well dressed as certain populations. Do you think they don't notice?

Cutting Medicaid might be turn out to be a blessing in disguise for the next generation who perfectly capable of being self sufficient.

I won't cry if everyone doesn't get free designer shoes yearly. I will cry if someone doesn't have shoes. That person won't care about the label on his shoes.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 4:54 pm

Squishy wrote:

Can we be realistic here? Single mom, 4 kids, 2 jobs. I am thrilled to squeeze in 2 kids one day, the others next week or maybe next month. I live 2 blocks away from the dentist and do not use transportation through Medicaid. Why should I be forced to schedule all my kids on the same day? This is not a reasonable solution.

BTW I am in the process of getting a root canal for over a year - because of intermittent Medicaid coverage due to the hundred hoops I needed to jump through when applying for public assistance. I also had one tooth pulled because Medicaid did not cover work on that tooth at all (in that condition).

youngishbear

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 5:01 pm

Fox wrote:

Two things we can agree on!

But socialism became a dirty word in some segments of this country.

amother

Aubergine

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 5:11 pm

Amarante wrote:

That's like the omertà code of the Mafia.

If a person is engaging in illegal or unethical activity, why do they deserve my protection just because they engage in certain religious rituals. They certainly don't deserve any respect and are selectively choosing which religious rituals they practice. Stealing is one of the big ten and would seem to cancel out almost any other rote actions of an outwardly frum person. Clearly they have not internalized any ethical or moral code of behavior.

That same thinking protects molestors or historically did.

Do you turn a blind eye to any evil immoral illegal act just because someone who calls himself or herself frum does it?

[note from Yael- asking a rav before turning a jew over to non jewish authorities for doing something illegal is a basic aspect of halacha and must be respected. For certain situations such as molestation there are blanket statements already made by rabbanim that do not require one to ask a rav first]

I once was in a situation where I had knowledge of fraud, and was actually afraid of being implicated in it by the perpetrator. Can't get into specifics. I asked my rav for guidance and he told me absolutely to report the fraud.

I'm mentioning this because I think daas Torah also acts in a way that's reasonable and does not promote hiding something that would be a chilul Hashem.

33055

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 5:13 pm

amother wrote:

My idea of scheduling the appointments together is because of the abuse of the cabs. Of course anyone not using cabs can continue scheduling anyway they want. This is just a suggestion to cut down on the abuse of cabs.

I only pointed out about the root canal because it is my understanding, which you confirmed, that they don't give root canals in certain teeth. Furthermore, a friend of mine was required to go to the Bronx to get a second evaluation on a root canal from a specialist. It was denied.

WhatFor

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 5:52 pm

Squishy wrote:

That's why I left the out that I could go to a BD. The thought of child molestation went through my mind.

Honestly, I don't know what I would do if they refused me permission. I would find some way to help. Perhaps I would consult with Rabbi Horowitz. I simply don't know.

Honestly, if someone is not in physical danger (such as molestation or abuse) I'd think long and hard before reporting a large segment of a religious population to a government that's already shown it has no qualms about targeting people on the basis of religion. With Bannon as the Haman to Trump's Achashveirosh, we really don't need to give them any more excuses to target us.....

33055

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 7:27 pm

WhatFor wrote:

It is not entering my mind to report anyone about anything. I said I would never ever ever.....

Squishy wrote:

With all due respect, I would never ever ever report a frum Jew or testify against one under any circumstances unless I had permission from a BD. I would only request permission under extreme duress.

The government does not need me to know who is getting Medicaid and what religion they are. Even the most cursory Google search of fraud and religious Jews will reveal an extremely large number of published articles detailing social services fraud and religious Jews. Unless you think these articles are fake news, then the government is well aware.

amother

Lemon

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 9:22 pm

I am on Medicaid because there is no other way for me to afford medical care. I work long hard hours and only go the doctor when really needed because it means leaving work early. I do do my best to bring my kids to their well visits but that's about it.

Regarding root canals- it's not so much that Medicaid only covers root canals for certain teeth. It's that they only cover a root canal if you are already missing at least one tooth (IIRC I think you have to be missing at least one tooth on each side of the mouth). Most people I know on Medicaid pay for their own root canals. My husband has been pushing off a root canal for four years now and doing temporary fixes every few months because Medicaid told him to just pull the tooth but we don't want to do that.

I actually haven't visited a dentist in about two years because I can't afford to take time off work to go. I feel super guilty that I haven't taken my kids to the dentist either. Maybe I should get them that fluoride enamel thing. I've never heard about it but it sounds like it would be a helpful to prevent cavities.

Regarding the transportation you all make it sound as though you just call a cab when you feel like visiting a doctor. It's not so simple. You have to contact Medicaid more than 24 hours before your appointment and explain why there is no way for you to get there with public transit (most people just say it's too hard). I personally can't take public transit because I have really little kids and I can't hold my kids and a folded stroller at the same time. I have never used the Medicaid taxi but I don't judge those who do. They don't own cars and this is pretty much their only option. Pretending you need a cab while really taking a bus is a whole different story. I certainly can't condone that.

Happydance

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 11:21 pm

regarding abuse/ reporting abuse- dont be so righteous!

Getting free shoes and free taxis and free nebulizers and free diaper cream is not fraud or abuse if medicaid decided to cover these things. Yes, certain communities over-utilization of these benefits may be careless, and causing a chillul Hashem- but reporting on your fellow brother is also causing a chillus Hashem.

No matter how over-utilized and frivolous the frum community is with accepting benefits- nothing compares to the fraud and abuse that goes on systematically in other areas of the country. Lets take the inner cities. Thousands of people are getting disability payments SSDI of $1000 per month more or less for disabilities often caused by their overeating, poorly taking care of their health, drug habits, alcohol related illnesses.
Thousands of people are selling their benefits (food stamps, SSDI, WIC, cash benefits, cell phones etc) for drug money.
Hundreds of homeless people get SSI income to help them with living arrangements and they use it for drugs instead...
And then these people end up in nursing homes at age 55 not being able to care for themselves due to drug-induced damage to their brains and bodies and medicaid pays for that!
I used to work with this population and heard about it first hand

This is causing far more of a burden on our system than a handful of frum communities with lots of kids going to see their PCP too often for strep

33055

Wed, Mar 15 2017, 11:58 pm

rlm wrote:

Your analogy is saying that it is not so bad the frum community doesn't pay tax because when we compare it to inner city drug dealers they don't pay taxes.

We are better than alcoholics and drug addicts.

Getting orthotics to get the free shoes is abuse. Don't kid yourself. When every single person qualifies for designer shoes and are given the offer of two pairs and forget the orthotics, it is abuse. Saying others abuse the system, doesn't fix this. Medicaid is covering shoes and orthotics for those who have foot problems.

Taxis to the dr are covered by Medicaid. Taxis companies refunding part of the unused fare, picking and dropping people off from the shopping centers, or taxis giving credits for future fares are not covered by Medicaid.

I feel bad worse for the people who qualify for disability payments even if they are self induced. What would you like to have done with them now they are sick? They are obviously the population the system was designed to serve. It is actually good that you no longer services them since they disgust you.

I have also worked in inner city ghettos. The problems are similar in terms of intergenerational government dependency and cash economies. The difference is the Jewish communities are mostly are collecting without the problems. They are using the government to subsidize a life style.

cbsp

Thu, Mar 16 2017, 10:11 am

youngishbear wrote:

I did. My point was that DT jumped to negative conclusions about him despite his obviously Jewish appearance. It makes me doubt that a history of loyalty from a particular group would necessarily earn Trump's reciprocal goodwill. (NOT saying that DT is an antisemite. I don't really know what the heck he stands for anymore.)

Actually DT originally called on him because:

"Wait, let’s see, I want to find a friendly reporter. Are you a friendly reporter? Watch how friendly he is. Go ahead."

What happened afterwards seems to be that he didn't hear the question (as per Mr. Turx himself).