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Forum
-> Household Management
Iymnok
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 Thu, Apr 27 2017, 11:35 am
You know that not all g*yim are horrible people who are out to get us right?
Statistically, your children are more likely to be hurt by a close relative. Your relatives are Jewish, correct?
Halachicly, there are things that we don't trust non-Jew with.
I highly doubt you can find a lady who might convert them. She'd have to be religious enough to begin with and many aren't these days.
Not that in advocating leaving your children with your cleaning lady, you need to trust someone you let into your house.
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happy12
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 11:43 am
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Cleaning help is way cheaper than therapy. If you can afford no reason not to have it.
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FranticFrummie
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 11:44 am
I am sickened that this thread turned into gentile bashing so quickly. 
The amother who posted that nonsense owes every single ger here an apology.
My grandmother survived the Shoah because she was smuggled out of Lotz by righteous gentiles.
I could go on, but I'm getting too angry.
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cnc
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 11:44 am
| amother wrote: | I certainly do not see a problem with the cleaning help.
I DO see a problem with using the cleaning help to babysit!
How can you leave yiddish kinder with a cleaning lady?
There have been so, so many crazy stories like:
*children taught non-Jewish prayers
*children abused
*children abducted
*children murdered
*children feed treif
The risk is so great! And not only that, but kids absorb everything their babysitter does and grow to believe it normal, I.e. something they should emulate. And while the cleaning help may be a wonderful person, she should not be passing on her values to yiddishe kinder even by accident! |
There have been many crazy stories with heimishe babysitters like:
* children being ignored cuz the babysitter is busy with her phone
* babysitters turning on the gas to make the kids drowsy so they fall asleep.
Bottom line is everyone should ask their own Rav what to do.
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amother
Bisque
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 11:48 am
| crust wrote: | I'm not talking about safety because I don't know how it is today.
Hashkufa wise; Reb Shayale keresteerer's cleaning lady knew Bruchos /modeh ani etc because she was the one reciting it with his children. |
What is this even supposed to mean....??
How many of us have Reb Shayas siyata d shomaya
And Ruach HaKodesh when choosing a cleaning lady..
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amother
Pewter
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 11:51 am
OP - if you can "afford it" is a theme here. Affording something doesn't mean that you have cash in your pocket. It means that after you've set money aside for the 'must haves' (like food, housing, clothing, masser) and a reasonable amount of savings (seek out advice on what that number is) you have something left over.... then you can 'afford it'.
that said - for some women - cleaning help is a 'must have'. You know your own situation.
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zaq
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 11:54 am
| crust wrote: | I'm not talking about safety because I don't know how it is today.
Hashkufa wise; Reb Shayale keresteerer's cleaning lady knew Bruchos /modeh ani etc because she was the one reciting it with his children. |
My grandmother's "meshoresteh" (gentile housemaid) was the one who prodded my dad and his siblings to make brochos .
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zaq
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:00 pm
| cnc wrote: | There have been many crazy stories with heimishe babysitters like:
* children being ignored cuz the babysitter is busy with her phone
. |
Yep. two of my frum sitters spent literally hours on the phone while supposedly caring for my kids. My gentile sitter never used the phone except to call me. This was before cell phones so I knew how my house phone was being used.
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amother
Seafoam
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:05 pm
I don't have cleaning help but am desperate and the 8 hours I had before pesach were so amazing and necessary. 10 hours doesn't sound so much. Men can be helpful, but don't need to be cleaning ladies. Major difference between taking out garbage daily and scrubbing toilet and bathroom, counter tops and kitchen, cleaning down a filthy fridge, folding, sorting and putting away laundry. Sounds like you and your husband are working hard and cleaning help is very important. My house would be more organized and cleaner if I had 15 hours of help a week. Cutting back 2 hours a week won't save much money anyhow, so what's the point? You don't have cleaning help every day so I am sure you are working quite hard in running your house.
If she is trustworthy, availability to babysit in occasion when need to take care of something is very helpful. I don't know why we look at cleaning help as an unnecessary expense. It is important for loads of reasons. I always feel like expenses crop of always that weren't planned, a parking ticket, insurance or doctors bills, small car expenses. Hashem will continue to bless you with money, use it properly, which sounds like you are, and keep up the amazing work you are doing! You sound like a great mom!
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SRS
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:07 pm
I think you need to define afford for yourself. It means different things to different people. For me, funding a 401k is a necessity in addition to the emergency funds.
Also, I'm not sure why everyone says, better to pay now and avoid the therapist. Kids who need therapy need therapy because they need therapy. Usually something chemical is going on, not that a more relaxed household doesn't help.
Whatever you decide, I'd still have the kids pitch in on cleaning a good 10-20 minutes a day.
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SRS
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:10 pm
| amother wrote: | | Cutting back 2 hours a week won't save much money anyhow, so what's the point? |
**how people end up in debt**
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behappy2
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:13 pm
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Not at all! Only you know what you need to keep your home happy and healthy. And earlier this year I also had my cleaning lady watch my baby. She played with her when I was too zonked from being up all night with her. Please follow your heart. And YOU can validate yourself too!
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zaq
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:14 pm
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OP, why are you asking other people for their opinion on a matter that is between you and you, as long as you aren't stiffing anyone or asking anyone for money? You have your own priorities which may differ from everyone else's. There is no right or wrong, there is only what works for you.
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amother
Pewter
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:14 pm
| SRS wrote: | I think you need to define afford for yourself. It means different things to different people. For me, funding a 401k is a necessity in addition to the emergency funds.
Also, I'm not sure why everyone says, better to pay now and avoid the therapist. Kids who need therapy need therapy because they need therapy. Usually something chemical is going on, not that a more relaxed household doesn't help.
Whatever you decide, I'd still have the kids pitch in on cleaning a good 10-20 minutes a day. |
I think the reference to therapy was for 'mom' not the kids.
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pesek zman
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:34 pm
I'm on the fence about this.
I personally think cleaning help is a luxury. I can probably afford it but it feels more luxurious than the lifestyle I lead, and I'm not comfortable spending money (for the most part) on things I can do myself. I don't see myself as a martyr, but we do have limited funds, and I prefer to live comfortably within my means, especially since luxuries can feel like necessities very quickly, and can become hard to pare down if circumstances change.
Especially because so many of the responses are validating, I wanted to respond with another perspective. Which isn't to say that cleaning help isn't right for you, your family, your Sholom Bayis or your mental health. it very well may be. But I don't think you're wrong to question yourself about this.
What does your husband think?
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finallyamommy
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:49 pm
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It sounds to me like you're doing fine.
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anotherima
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:50 pm
For some women they feel that they should be able to do "it all" and feel it's a luxury to have cleaning ladies. But they complain to me how their house is so messy and out of control but they would never "forgin" themselves to spend the money on the cleaning lady. I am so glad my mother in law told me when I got married that her mother told her to have cleaning help.
By the way, how much do you pay for cleaning help per hour OP?
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amother
Orange
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 1:04 pm
SAHM with three kids under 4 (one in school) and had 14-16 hours a week. Yes it kept me sane.
Good for all those that managed without. For us it's a necessity for shalom basis and keeping the house calm
And I wouldn't leave my non Jewish cleaner to babysit (my rav said best not to leave alone in the house for kashrut reasons)
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lfab
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 1:38 pm
| amother wrote: | | Cutting back 2 hours a week won't save much money anyhow, so what's the point? |
2 hours per week x $12 per hour adds up to almost $100 per month. Cut 3 hours and it's nearly $150 per month. Over the course of a full year it adds up. Is it tons of money? No. But it's not so little either.
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lfab
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Thu, Apr 27 2017, 1:44 pm
| amother wrote: | I don't have cleaning help but am desperate and the 8 hours I had before pesach were so amazing and necessary. 10 hours doesn't sound so much. Men can be helpful, but don't need to be cleaning ladies. Major difference between taking out garbage daily and scrubbing toilet and bathroom, counter tops and kitchen, cleaning down a filthy fridge, folding, sorting and putting away laundry. Sounds like you and your husband are working hard and cleaning help is very important. My house would be more organized and cleaner if I had 15 hours of help a week. Cutting back 2 hours a week won't save much money anyhow, so what's the point? You don't have cleaning help every day so I am sure you are working quite hard in running your house.
If she is trustworthy, availability to babysit in occasion when need to take care of something is very helpful. I don't know why we look at cleaning help as an unnecessary expense. It is important for loads of reasons. I always feel like expenses crop of always that weren't planned, a parking ticket, insurance or doctors bills, small car expenses. Hashem will continue to bless you with money, use it properly, which sounds like you are, and keep up the amazing work you are doing! You sound like a great mom! |
No one is saying that men should be the cleaning lady. However, cutting back on cleaning help 2-3 hours per week doesn't need to mean that all those hours of work fall on the mom. If you split the tasks that need to now be done by you instead of the cleaning help it's not that much for either person. If you cut 3 hours and split the work that's 18 minutes per person 5 days a week, or 30 minutes per person 3 days a week etc. much more manageable than mom alone suddenly needing to fit in 3 extra hours of cleaning per week. The cleaning help can still do the major cleaning when she's there.
And for the record, there is nothing wrong with men doing some heavy cleaning, such as mopping/scrubbing bathrooms. FYI, my husband does those things every Friday since I work Friday and he doesn't. I'm not saying that this would work for everyone, but nothing will happen if a man pitches in, even with the heavy duty cleaning.
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