Why does everyone say 'do whats best for you'?

marina

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:34 am

pause wrote:

True. But clearly if the child is going nine out ten to the in-laws, there's a reason they don't want or can't be at the parents' house. A reason that trumps being kind.

Sure, there are some reasons that trump being kind. Like if they are abusive or whatever. But if your reason is just about your general comfort or whatever, that doesn't trump anything.

zaq

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:36 am

pause wrote:

True. But clearly if the child is going nine out ten to the in-laws, there's a reason they don't want or can't be at the parents' house. A reason that trumps being kind.

Not necessarily. They could be selfish and materialistic and looking out for their own comfort above family ties. We've had any number of posts about "I hate going to my parents, they have a small apartment with one bathroom, they use uchy generic toilet paper and scratchy towels, have old toys my kids don't like and dh and I have to sleep on the pullout couch. Going to my inlaws is like going to a hotel, they have a gorgeous big house with four master bedrooms, a playroom full of new toys, and every bathroom is stocked with high-end personal care items. My mother's been nagging me to come for YT but I really don't want to. Its so much more yuntefdik at my inlaws. WWYD?"

Simple1

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:40 am

octopus wrote:

If you are going to pull the kibud eim card, I will pull the choleh card. A postpartum woman has a real din of choleh - and I think , though I'm not 100% sure, it's a sheyesh boh sakana. A postpartum woman has a real halachic status of a sick person. That's not so simple. I'm pretty sure that makes her exempt from people pleasing, and when ppl offer help, it has to be in the choleh's best interest, not the other person's feelings. Privacy and quiet is a big deal after giving birth. Hate to be graphic, but you kinda need your own bathroom after giving birth if you ask me. I would rather stay home, then have to share with siblings.

She is a choleh for one week. With the first three days being the strictest.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:40 am

marina wrote:

Sure, there are some reasons that trump being kind. Like if they are abusive or whatever. But if your reason is just about your general comfort or whatever, that doesn't trump anything.

I'm the poster in question, the one who dared choose to be comfortable in her in laws' home even though my mother gave life to me.

Normally I agree that general comfort doesn't trump anything. But when circumstances are severe- such as postpartum, when I was allowed to have a non-Jew be mechalel shabbos on my behalf just so I could be more comfortable, and when I didn't have to fast even on Yom Kippur- yes, postpartum is a time when I have to think of my needs first. There's no room for anyone else's expectations.

pause

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:40 am

zaq wrote:

You don't get it. Naturally, children like staying at their parents' home. The small house with one bathroom and old toys is what is home to them, and they like to spend time with their family even if the accommodations aren't so amazing. Yeah, sure, with time, as the family grows, the logistics might make them come less...

But if children are not going AT ALL, there's something way more than lack of accommodations.

And FTR, I've never seen a post like the one you posted above.

marina

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:41 am

pause wrote:

I hear you. But PP general comfort is about health.

Well, yes. If you really think your PP health will be compromised if you stay at your mom's house, then you shouldn't go. In saying this, I'm imagining increased PPD or lower milk supply b/c of anxiety or increased bleeding b/c you have to be more physically active.

I'm not imagining someone who just says "yeah, I really like being in my own house and sleeping in my own bed and having some baby and mommy bonding time."

marina

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:44 am

amother wrote:

Are you talking about postpartum depression? Or just being postpartum? I'm confused.

No one has to fast on YK if they just delivered and everyone can have a gentile be mechallel shabbos for their comfort. That doesn't excuse you from being kind. It's just halacha.

pause

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:44 am

marina wrote:

Both of the situations you posted here give a PP mom the right and the obligation to stay where she wants. I don't see how her mother's wishes come into play here AT ALL. Why does a mother have a say of where her married daughter likes to rest and recuperate PP?

marina

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:47 am

octopus wrote:

Postpartum people had a din of choleh when the shulchan aruch was written because dying within 3 days of delivery was a real thing. If you are worried about dying within three days of delivery plse stay in hospital and go to no one's house.

tichellady

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:48 am

marina wrote:

Sure, there are some reasons that trump being kind. Like if they are abusive or whatever. But if your reason is just about your general comfort or whatever, that doesn't trump anything.

Why not? Why isn't it the host's responsibility to make sure their guests accommodations are comfortable (if they are going to insist on the guests staying with them) . Why isn't that being part of being a kind person? Why does the kindness only have to go one way?

marina

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:50 am

pause wrote:

This is not about the mother having a say or a right or anything like that. It's about the daughter avoiding making her mother feel sad. That is all.

Being kind is what we are when the other person doesn't have a right or an obligation and maybe doesn't even deserve it.

If we are only kind when the other person has a right to dictate our actions, that's not kindness, it's just being responsible or obedient or something else.

glamourmom

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:51 am

tichellady wrote:

no one said the host wouldn't be kind and generous with her guest. were talking if the new mother prefers to go elsewhere she should have that choice. if there's ever a time to be lenient with a woman and her wishes it's PP, even if she's not in danger of dying.
why does the PP mother have to be more considerate of her mother's feelings than her mother of hers?

marina

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:52 am

tichellady wrote:

Kindness should go both ways. But we are kind to people who are not responsible and who have no right to direct us and to whom we have no obligation and sometimes we are even kind to people who don't deserve it.

That's what kindness means. Otherwise, it's just meeting your obligations.

allthingsblue

Fri, May 05 2017, 8:53 am

marina wrote:

I decided to lose my amother cover. I'm that poster.

I'm talking about regular PP, not PPD (although I did have a hard time getting back to myself emotionally, longer than most people I know, but I was never officially diagnosed with PPD and for sure not when my postpartum housing arrangements were decided.)

My point is, postpartum is such a sensitive time that even Halacha views it as such, with different rules about fasting and hilchos shabbos.

Being kind does not mean listening to foolish customs or making everyone happy at all times. It means doing things in a kind way, if need be.

For example, I didn't say, "hey, mom, I'm going to my in laws because it's bigger and quieter and I like it better. See ya. Bye."
I said, "ma, I'm sorry it has to be this way and I feel bad because I know you were looking forward to having me stay with you, but I think I have to stay at my in laws after I give birth. It's going to be hard for me to have to share a bathroom with a lot of siblings and not have the quiet I need. It's nothing personal, it's just that that is what works better for me at this time. I'm really sorry and of course we'd love for you to come visit the new baby at my in laws whenever you want!!! Thank you for everything you've done for us. "
(Mind you, she never once asked me whether I'd like to stay there, or what my postpartum plans would be- she just automatically assumed I would because "everyone does". I found out from my siblings.)

How is that unkind? I was kind but form with what I said. How she chooses to interpret it is up to her.