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-> Working Women
imasoftov
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 Mon, May 15 2017, 12:47 pm
| amother wrote: | | I started the thread and she responded. I didn't attack her. She took it the way she wanted to. |
and I don't think you're trying to have it both ways
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amother
Tangerine
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Mon, May 15 2017, 12:47 pm
| amother wrote: | | My grandfather's story was about shabbos. They were making his decision whether he was becoming a lawyer on shabbos and he said he had to leave. |
Try again. It wasn't graduation.
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amother
Coral
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Mon, May 15 2017, 12:48 pm
| amother wrote: | | I'm modern Orthodox and would never consider going to a graduation on shabbos. So? Apparently growing up Satmar doesn't insulate you from every struggle. |
I'm not from that community either. You're right, though was just pointing out that I'm not sure why she thought that part would be inspirational. And I don't like all the 'ra ra you go girl' comments either.
Looks like I came over a little harsh in that post though. Been having a hard day and seems it's coming out on here too...
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amother
Oak
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Mon, May 15 2017, 12:49 pm
| amother wrote: | | I started the thread and she responded. I didn't attack her. She took it the way she wanted to. |
I don't know your true intentions obviously, but it seems to many of us here that you started this thread to attack that op.
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amother
Yellow
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Mon, May 15 2017, 12:54 pm
| amother wrote: | | Try again. It wasn't graduation. |
It was it was way more than graduation it was the verdict as to if he's going to become a lawyer or not. His law school years were hanging in Balance which was way more than the graduation
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amother
Yellow
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Mon, May 15 2017, 12:55 pm
| amother wrote: | | I don't know your true intentions obviously, but it seems to many of us here that you started this thread to attack that op. |
There were several posts.
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amother
Red
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Mon, May 15 2017, 12:57 pm
| amother wrote: | | My grandfather's story was about shabbos. They were making his decision whether he was becoming a lawyer on shabbos and he said he had to leave. |
Really other than a university being the setting of your story - the circumstances aren't comparable.
The crux of your grandfathers story was that the judge was able to make a conclusion on his character - ie fitness to be a lawyer- because of how he stuck to his religion.
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amother
Coral
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Mon, May 15 2017, 12:59 pm
| amother wrote: | Really other than a university being the setting of your story - the circumstances aren't comparable.
The crux of your grandfathers story was that the judge was able to make a conclusion on his character - ie fitness to be a lawyer- because of how he stuck to his religion. |
And how did he stick to his religion? by not attending on Shabbos.
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amother
Chocolate
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Mon, May 15 2017, 4:08 pm
Op what I realize as time goes by that this place imamother is not for us frum women. it's for the modern Jews. Whatever name you want to call them. We won't understand them and they wont understand us. We are too fanatic and too frum. As evidenced in the woman that we're talking about she is not a real satmar woman. She is ex chasidish. Chasidish satmar women do don't do this and not a single satmar Dayan will pasken for her. She's wouldn't even ask a satmar Dayan such a shayla because she knows to be embarrassed by it.
Op it's useless to try to explain people here you stance. This is an endless battle. Between the ultra frum and the ones who modernize. This place is not for me.
Not only that the woman we speak about and all who seek to modernize are looking for excuses. They know this well as evidence with the rate of assimilation in their communities
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amother
Gray
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Mon, May 15 2017, 4:45 pm
| amother wrote: |
Not only that the woman we speak about and all who seek to modernize are looking for excuses. They know this well as evidence with the rate of assimilation in their communities |
Oh? And how do you explain the rate of defection in your communities? All the disaffected Chassidish youth who are going not modern but so OTD that even MO parents would be sitting shiva?
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amother
Coral
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Mon, May 15 2017, 4:58 pm
| amother wrote: | | Oh? And how do you explain the rate of defection in your communities? All the disaffected Chassidish youth who are going not modern but so OTD that even MO parents would be sitting shiva? |
What makes you think that poster was chassidish?
I felt the same as her and no connection whatsoever to those communities.
I also don't believe the defect rate is higher there than anywhere else, it's probably just much more noticeable. With someone from the modern community, often their dress doesn't change much to reflect the changes so you wouldn't tell the difference externally.
But, that is really not here nor there and no connection to this discussion.
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PinkFridge
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Mon, May 15 2017, 4:58 pm
| amother wrote: | Op what I realize as time goes by that this place imamother is not for us frum women. it's for the modern Jews. Whatever name you want to call them. We won't understand them and they wont understand us. We are too fanatic and too frum. As evidenced in the woman that we're talking about she is not a real satmar woman. She is ex chasidish. Chasidish satmar women do don't do this and not a single satmar Dayan will pasken for her. She's wouldn't even ask a satmar Dayan such a shayla because she knows to be embarrassed by it.
Op it's useless to try to explain people here you stance. This is an endless battle. Between the ultra frum and the ones who modernize. This place is not for me.
Not only that the woman we speak about and all who seek to modernize are looking for excuses. They know this well as evidence with the rate of assimilation in their communities |
You probably qualify for one, or more, of the closed forums. Perhaps you want to start a thread there.
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SixOfWands
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Mon, May 15 2017, 5:05 pm
| amother wrote: | Op what I realize as time goes by that this place imamother is not for us frum women. it's for the modern Jews. Whatever name you want to call them. We won't understand them and they wont understand us. We are too fanatic and too frum. As evidenced in the woman that we're talking about she is not a real satmar woman. She is ex chasidish. Chasidish satmar women do don't do this and not a single satmar Dayan will pasken for her. She's wouldn't even ask a satmar Dayan such a shayla because she knows to be embarrassed by it.
Op it's useless to try to explain people here you stance. This is an endless battle. Between the ultra frum and the ones who modernize. This place is not for me.
Not only that the woman we speak about and all who seek to modernize are looking for excuses. They know this well as evidence with the rate of assimilation in their communities |
Well, whether this place is for you or not is Yael's call, and I don't envy her that call.
But IMNSO, this should not be a place for nasty, cruel women who hide behind anonymity to attack other women.
How DARE you attack a poster as "not a real satmar woman." How DARE you attack her commitment to Judaism and being frum.
My only suggestion to you is that you study lashon hara. Study kindness to fellow Jews. Because you're not a nice human being. And I don't care if you bring in Shabbat 3 hours early and end it 2 hours late, and spend your time days helping people and reading tehillim. Anyone who would speak that way to another person isn't a very good Jew.* I look forward to your public mechila, under your own name, to the poster in question.
*FTR, I don't claim to be a very good Jew, so go ahead and attack me for being "modern." Because AFAIK, EVERY thread of Judaism embraces kindness.
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amother
Coral
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Mon, May 15 2017, 5:16 pm
Do you know something Sixofwands? You are right. I didn't write that post though I did write others that could have been toned down a little and probably shouldn't have been written the way they were.
I think what had touched a raw nerve with me (and probably the other poster) was they way the poster in question wrote that her story is an inspiration from the fact that she comes from a chassidish background. Yes her achievements are undeniably something though saying it is an inspiration where she comes from, as in that embracing a more open approach is something we should all be praising her for, when what she's doing goes against the essence of shabbos, is kind of going a little too far.
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amother
Sapphire
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Mon, May 15 2017, 5:32 pm
| amother wrote: | Do you know something Sixofwands? You are right. I didn't write that post though I did write others that could have been toned down a little and probably shouldn't have been written the way they were.
I think what had touched a raw nerve with me (and probably the other poster) was they way the poster in question wrote that her story is an inspiration from the fact that she comes from a chassidish background. Yes her achievements are undeniably something though saying it is an inspiration where she comes from, as in that embracing a more open approach is something we should all be praising her for, when what she's doing goes against the essence of shabbos, is kind of going a little too far. |
A little? Just a little?!
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zaq
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Mon, May 15 2017, 5:33 pm
| amother wrote: | Do you know something Sixofwands? You are right. I didn't write that post though I did write others that could have been toned down a little and probably shouldn't have been written the way they were.
I think what had touched a raw nerve with me (and probably the other poster) was they way the poster in question wrote that her story is an inspiration from the fact that she comes from a chassidish background. Yes her achievements are undeniably something though saying it is an inspiration where she comes from, as in that embracing a more open approach is something we should all be praising her for, when what she's doing goes against the essence of shabbos, is kind of going a little too far. | . I don't believe the woman who is graduating considers herself an inspiration because she's trying to attend an awards ceremony on Shabbos. I believe she considers herself an inspiration for being a woman with a typicallly Satmar limited secular education who somehow managed not only to acquire a college education while running a home and working but managed to graduate with highest honors. This would be a remarkable achievement even if she had attended academically superior MO schools with rigorous college prep tracks; how much more so given the limitations of the educational system she grew up with.
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Chana Miriam S
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Mon, May 15 2017, 5:51 pm
| zaq wrote: | | . I don't believe the woman who is graduating considers herself an inspiration because she's trying to attend an awards ceremony on Shabbos. I believe she considers herself an inspiration for being a woman with a typicallly Satmar limited secular education who somehow managed not only to acquire a college education while running a home and working but managed to graduate with highest honors. This would be a remarkable achievement even if she had attended academically superior MO schools with rigorous college prep tracks; how much more so given the limitations of the educational system she grew up with. |
I totally agree. Snd why anyone is judging her is beyond me. It's between her and god
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amother
Coral
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Mon, May 15 2017, 5:56 pm
| zaq wrote: | | . I don't believe the woman who is graduating considers herself an inspiration because she's trying to attend an awards ceremony on Shabbos. I believe she considers herself an inspiration for being a woman with a typicallly Satmar limited secular education who somehow managed not only to acquire a college education while running a home and working but managed to graduate with highest honors. This would be a remarkable achievement even if she had attended academically superior MO schools with rigorous college prep tracks; how much more so given the limitations of the educational system she grew up with. |
She might have meant that. But, she definitely was also saying that in the same way OP gave an inspirational story, she has one to. And that just didn't sit right with me.
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tichellady
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Mon, May 15 2017, 6:27 pm
| amother wrote: | Do you know something Sixofwands? You are right. I didn't write that post though I did write others that could have been toned down a little and probably shouldn't have been written the way they were.
I think what had touched a raw nerve with me (and probably the other poster) was they way the poster in question wrote that her story is an inspiration from the fact that she comes from a chassidish background. Yes her achievements are undeniably something though saying it is an inspiration where she comes from, as in that embracing a more open approach is something we should all be praising her for, when what she's doing goes against the essence of shabbos, is kind of going a little too far. |
Who made you the authority on determining what the essence of shabbos and what is considered in the spirit of shabbos????? Do you really think that there is one answer that is the same for every individual, regardless of community affiliation, hashkafa, personal circumstances, etc?
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WhatFor
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Mon, May 15 2017, 6:51 pm
I'm so curious what law school this was, where people were given an opportunity to object at a graduation ceremony, and also, where people took the bar exam before graduating.
Maybe law school processes have evolved so it's certainly interesting to learn more about this evolution. Where was this?
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