Having more kids than you feel ready for

amother

Oak

Wed, May 24 2017, 7:39 pm

amother wrote:

You know what. I think you want to hear an answer that will help you point a finger and blame someone or something.

It doesn't work that way.

Life is complex. People have different upbringings, different circumstances, different comprehension.

It boils down to one thing. Hashem runs the world.

Why one manages with ten and the other crashes. Why for some 1 is overwhelming for another juggling double digits is easy.

Trust Hashem.
don't try to solve all problems.
Help when you can.

Be mechanech your children to your understanding with the guidance of Torah.

May Hashem be with you and all of us, trying to make it through life with clarity and serenity.

G-d pushes the buttons, you make the music.

Be wise on your travels through planet earth.

It's posts like this that drive me absolutely crazy! She wasn't looking for a rebbitzin response! Ur response sounds like u were never introduced to BC and that ppl who take it are reshaim that will burn! She was looking for down to earth reasoning. Of course we know that Hashem gives us what we can handle. But the same Hashem also made BC and allows us to take it when needed! It sounds like OP was wondering if ppl's are aware of that!

amother

Wheat

Wed, May 24 2017, 8:04 pm

I don't think you are referring to me because a) I don't have THAT many kids (only 5) and b) I don't think anyone can tell on the outside what a hard time I'm having but. . . I definitely feel like I have too many kids to handle (well). So why did I have them? Because when I had my 5th (and final), I still did not know the ramifications of my DH's dysfunction. In addition the extent (or presence at all) of some of my other children's issues were not known to me (or anyone).

Had I known what life would have in store for me and my family. . . I would have stopped after two Crying

I can't imagine having had more children had I been having such a hard time then (which I wasn't). I guess my problem was having a limited imagination embarrassed

amother

Brunette

Thu, May 25 2017, 1:32 am

amother wrote:

I ask this question in a completely non judgmental manner, as I am truly just curious and want to understand. This question is for those of you who have more children than you can manage/too close together/etc.

How does that happen? I've heard people say that people don't realize they have a choice, don't think about it... and it's so hard for me to understand that, that I want to understand. Maybe because I have so few and each one had to be thought about carefully and because of life circumstances I don't see myself being able to have more, which is very sad to me. And all around me I see people struggling to manage with large families that they almost seem not to have wanted, so I'd love to hear from those of you who have mentioned things like that. Can you explain how the whole family planning (or lack thereof) works in these cases?

I truly apologize if I come across in any way as anything but openly curious and wanting to learn.

I thought along these lines when I had my 4 kids many years ago. I only had what I knew I could manage. While I had 1my friends were spitting out 2 or even 3. I knew that each of my babies were going to become people eventually and raising kids to me is and was a huge responsibility. It boggled my mind that my friends didn't see things the same way...
Now many years later I wish I had a larger family. Sometimes. I'm def in the minority with the no of children I Have.
I also feel that there is so much in life we have no control over. $hit gets thrown at us left and right sometimes. But for the things we DO have control over ie birth control we should make use. G-d gave us brains too, no?

amother

Lemon

Thu, May 25 2017, 2:58 am

I have 6 kids and am totally overwhelmed.

I realize that this feeling is temporary and I love my kids to death and have no regrets despite the difficulties.

Part of the issue is that dh is much less involved with the family than he was with the first few kids. Everything falls on my shoulders and its too much. If I would have realized to what extent I probably would have stopped a few kids ago. On the other hand, my youngest 2 are like sunshine and rainbows in my dreary days, so I literally thank hashem for them everyday and can't imagine my life without them.

I know that in a few years when my kids are a bit older and I'm past the drudgery of babies and toddlers things will be better. Yes I already have 2 teenagers and realize that stage is difficult too, but I am just sooooo tiiiiired and look forward to sleeping through the night. Hashem gives me the strength to get through each day but I look forward to functioning on a full nights sleep.

behappy2

Thu, May 25 2017, 5:06 am

amother wrote:

There is a distinction between not managing and looking into the future. If someone is falling apart TODAY and their marriage is suffering, their mental health is suffering, their children are suffering and they go on BC they will have no regrets bec they are cognizant of their limitations. This is different than not having another one until you are financially secure or decide that you only want x amount of kids bec you are holding all of the future in your hands at once and it is overwhelming.

amother

Peach

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:20 am

amother wrote:

Ok to clarify my op - I grew up in a yeshivish community where people had very large families and now in the course of my work I'm finding out how many of these families were/are doing terribly. Of course I mostly see the ones who aren't managing and that was whom my question was directed at. I also see people who feel like they have no choice and I cannot understand it. I understand how so many are in dead ends financially because of what we were taught and how we were raised, and so many years were lost - as it's hard to start a career at 30+. But when it comes to kids there's a point where you can stop, and I don't understand how people keep going when they are complete not coping. My post was not directed at people who are managing and happy. That's a completely different topic...

I am not sure if this is the right answer to your question but here is what I am thinking....

There are people (like myself) who always dreamed of having a large family. Like any dream, it is hard to relinquish that dream. They may feel it is worth struggling through the years when the kids are young for the sake of that dream.

There are people who dream of making aliyah and they do it even if it results in them and their kids not managing. There are people who dream of being a doctor and may leave their kids feeling uncared for because they can't manage what's involved in that while also raising a family. There are people who dream of "making a difference in the world" and therefore go out to work even if they can afford not to and even if it means they can't manage their kids. And, yes, there are people who dream of having a large family and therefore have more kids even if it interferes with their coping. Of course, there are people who do any of the above and manage amazingly and raise happy kids. But there are people who sacrifice their ability to manage for the sake of their dreams. Is that the right thing to do? No comment. But perhaps that is what some of the people you encounter are thinking.

ora_43

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:04 pm

I think you're looking for a logical answer that doesn't exist.

It's pretty simple - dysfunctional people don't realize they're dysfunctional. Maybe there's a handful of people out there who look at their kids and think, "Wow, I sure am terrible at this parenting thing, I'm barely meeting their basic needs... so, how about another baby?" and have some logical reason for it. But in most cases it's more like, the parents don't even realize that they're only giving their kids a fraction of the care that they need. (Or sometimes, that while they are a good parent, their spouse is a terrible parent.)

In some cases, parents smarten up at some point and realize there's something lacking, but at that point the kids are already born, and there's no choice but to try to cope.

If you're talking about mild dysfunction (/"not handling"), there are a couple other options (both mentioned by previous posters, but bear repeating) -

1. It was easier when the kids were babies. For example, a parent who has lots of physical energy, but not a lot of patience for conversing with kids or tutoring them, might do great with babies and toddlers but struggle when their kids hit the school years.

2. They are dysfunctional in this one particular area, and have decided the dysfunction isn't so harmful that it's worth not having kids over. For example, someone who is highly disorganized and would be even with no kids in the picture. "Taking a break" or having fewer kids won't change the situation; and they might decide that it's not such a bad situation that it'd be better for the kids not to be born.

amother

Peach

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:09 pm

amother wrote:

That is actually a great insight that I have not thought of. Thank you for sharing that.

Thanks. I find in general on imamother many posters have a hard time grasping that there are women who actually WANT to have big families in spite of the challenges, and there is a lot of judgement of women who have many children and don't cope well. But what about women who choose (not due to financial necessity) high-powered careers with long, draining hours and then don't cope, or make other choices that affects their ability to "manage"?

If someone would post "I have 10 children. I work full time as a neurosurgeon and find it so fulfilling. But I am just not
managing with life. My house is a mess. My kids have outgrown their clothing and I haven't gotten around to buying new ones. We have frozen pizza for dinner every night, if I even get around to giving dinner. I don't have time or energy to give attention to each child and keep up with their needs." My gut reaction would be "well why do you work as a neurosurgeon if you can't manage life?," but I think many amothers would react with, "well why do you keep having more children if you can't manage them?"

tichellady

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:19 pm

amother wrote:

Being a neurosurgeon is holy work and being a mother is holy work. Who is to say which is more important? Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding what you are saying but I see them both as very valid choices

ora_43

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:24 pm

amother wrote:

I think that also "not coping" means different things to different people.

Are we talking, the house is messy, the kids don't always eat the healthiest food, the parents don't always spend quality time with the kids, kids mostly do homework alone?

Or are we talking, sheets with urine on them stay on the bed for days, or the kids don't get regular meals, or the parents and kids never spend quality time together, the parents have no idea how the kids are doing in school?

If I pictured the first, I'd tend more toward thinking "well, maybe they took a little too much on themselves, but hey, we've all been there. It'll turn out OK in the end."

But I tend to picture something more toward the second. Mostly because I've seen families like that.

amother

Peach

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:37 pm

tichellady wrote:

I think you are misunderstanding me. My point was just that I would "blame" this woman's not being able to cope on her choice of career, while I think many amothers here would "blame" it on her choice to have many children. I am not saying which is more valid, just observing the trends I see here. People seem more likely to suggest limiting family size to a woman who isn't coping than to suggest other changes that may enhance coping.

amother

Crimson

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:40 pm

amother wrote:

I think this is true for a lot people. they would do anything to fulfill there dream but sometimes don't realize what it entails and if its really meant for them.......

tichellady

Thu, May 25 2017, 12:46 pm

amother wrote:

Ok thanks I understand

amother

Lime

Thu, May 25 2017, 1:02 pm

amother wrote:

Referring to those who are not managing and often are therefore coming to me for help. This is definitely not a judgment, just something I seek to understand better. And all I've really heard is speculation from others in my field and would love to actually hear from these people themselves but can't really ask straight out. And there are people on this site who seem to be in that situation as well, so I'm hoping to become more enlightened.

They come to you for what kind of help? If it's therapeutic help, I'm sure you realize that it's unprofessional and ineffective to ask your question on Imamother.
And while your wording is polite, you actually sound judgmental. As someone who has two kids and feels that it's quite enough, I also find it easier to speak to people who are similar to me in that regard but I do not believe we are a happier, more successful group of people. Maybe we are people who do better with one on one time than with group time. Maybe we are people who are physically more sensitive and have longer memories of pregnancy and nursing. Maybe we are people with more of a yen to travel or simply with less money or family help. But there is never a reason to be arrogant or call your choices better.

amother

Mauve

Thu, May 25 2017, 1:42 pm

The social worker that gets referred families with 10+ kids that aren't managing - that's because you are a social worker and every family that is referred to you is one that is not managing. You don't get to see the ones that are actually doing fine or doing great.

(For many years, I thought non jewish women didn't marry. That's because at my work in Manhattan the vast majority of women are single. I went on a trip to rural/red state America, and I saw a non-Jewish woman married with 4 kids - my mouth dropped open. I went over to her and asked - are these all yours Smile

). There is a selection bias going on - I work with single women so I think all of America is single, and that's obviously not true. You work in a yeshivish/chassidish community, where most families have many children, and you see the ones that are struggling, so you think that every large family struggles. It's a selection bias.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, May 25 2017, 2:04 pm

amother wrote:

Actually I found this quite effective as I've gained a lot of insight from the posters who chose to be helpful and answer my question. I don't see why practically every thread on imamother has to have accusatory responses (at best). Perhaps some hugs are in order.

amother

Lime

Thu, May 25 2017, 2:41 pm

amother wrote:

Again, if you are a professional in the therapy field then you've taken statistics, psychological testing and measurement, etc. so you understand that the results you retrieve from an Imamother post are both inaccurate and unprofessional.
I didn't intend to accuse you, I just meant to remind you that you can enjoy your own choices without judging others negatively.

amother

Purple

Thu, May 25 2017, 3:42 pm

I think it might be more helpful to ask the people whom you work with why they're not managing and figure out ways to help them manage.
I did find your post quite judgemental as well, but this is part (a small part) of my story. I was taught bc is only used for abuse or severe mental illness. In fact, I was taught I can never refuse dh .
The rabbonim dh spoke to for a heter, gave 6 months very grudgingly.
Sometimes the bc failed.
I could go on , but I don't wish to, I only want to point out that there are many factors that go into someone having more kids when they are not managing.
Also, people not managing can stem from different things to, so even in 1 family, the parents might or might not be managing at various times.