Are tattoos disgusting?

shyshira

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:19 pm

Is all behavior the Torah forbids disgusting?

Last edited by shyshira on Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

greenfire

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:21 pm

are you asking a query or are you making a statement ?

shyshira

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:27 pm

greenfire wrote:

are you asking a query or are you making a statement ?

Query. I think no - I see a difference between not permitted and disgusting. Wondering what others think, and why.

heidi

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:29 pm

The Torah gives specific guidelines for living as a Jew. Some things we think we know the reason for and some we have no idea. I'm not sure why we would assume that all behaviors forbidden to Jews are disgusting. Unfamiliar, and thus seems odd to you, maybe. But disgusting? Not according to the vast majority of the world population who eat meat and milk together and turn on lights on Saturday.

zaq

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:30 pm

Disgusting is a value judgement. Forbidden by law (religious or civil) or custom is a statement of fact.

SixOfWands

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:31 pm

shyshira wrote:

Is all behavior the Torah forbids disgusting?

Of course not.

The Torah forbids me from knitting on Saturday afternoon, but there's nothing disgusting about knitting on Saturday afternoon.

The Torah tells me no cheeseburgers, but cheeseburgers are, hate to tell you, delicious.

The Torah tells me that I can't wear a garment of linen and wool. Its not disgusting.

I'm not particularly fond of tattoos, but most are not disgusting.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:35 pm

shyshira wrote:

Is all behavior the Torah forbids disgusting?

Or as torah believers are we supposed accept those behaviors/actions/tattoos as disgusting without thinking about how we feel?

Last edited by MagentaYenta on Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:39 pm; edited 2 times in total

greenfire

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:37 pm

not all things forbidden are disgusting ... especially considering people crave them & even do many of them ... if the torah prohibits something it is attesting to the fact that it actually exists

the way I see it, there is a balance for everything - a nice tattoo might be a little delicate flower or something small ... a more ostentatious tattoo might be when you have them all over your body

don't be so quick to judge ... I know somebody who has tattoos to cover up scars

mommy3b2c

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:37 pm

No. Many of the things the Torah forbids are perfectly fine. Just not Jews.

shyshira

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:44 pm

So I guess the follow up is - if the Torah says something is a תּוֹעֵבָה (not sure if tattoos are) are we meant to be disgusted, or just Hashem.

shyshira

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:45 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

No. Many of the things the Torah forbids are perfectly fine. Just not Jews.

Where is the line? Seven noahide laws?

Ruchel

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 12:54 pm

From the number of times people here have posted that mitsvos are disgusting (wig for ex), yes definitely some tattoos are. My opinion.

Fox

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 2:09 pm

Interesting question.

In general, as always, I agree with SixOfWands on this.

I'd add the following, though:

In theory, an individual could reach a high enough madrega that she really does feel a little revulsion when she sees a Jew, say, knitting on Shabbos. However, her revulsion wouldn't be toward knitting but toward the violation of Hashem's law.

But someone who is really on such a high madrega is going to be the very last person to pipe up and say, "Ugh! Knitting on Shabbos? I just can't! That's so disgusting!"

Sometimes I hear things depicted as "disgusting" and I feel like it's really a vocabulary problem. There seems to be virtually no room in many people's lexicon for anything in between "not something done in my culture" and "doesn't appeal to me" and "disgusting."

Obviously, tattoos are not something done in my culture and 99 percent of them are unappealing to me. But I've seen pictures of some truly amazing ones -- like the guy who lost his arm and had the remainder turned into a realistic dolphin! So while I'm not a fan of most tattoos, I'd rather reserve "disgusting" for more extreme situations and occurences.

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 2:21 pm

The medrash (Sifra on Kedoshim) says that we shouldn't say we're revolted (אי אפשי) by chukim like basar ve-chalav, shaatnez etc. We should say, I would like it, but the Torah has forbidden it to me. אפשי ואפשי והתורה אסרה

That means, just because something is assur doesn't make it disgusting.

We don't apply this logic to mishpatim. We should be disgusted by murder, theft and adultery.

shyshira

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 2:36 pm

Fox wrote:

Sometimes I hear things depicted as "disgusting" and I feel like it's really a vocabulary problem. There seems to be virtually no room in many people's lexicon for anything in between "not something done in my culture" and "doesn't appeal to me" and "disgusting."

I like that - 'vocabulary problem'.

A tattoo, I checked , is not תֹּועֵבָה.

Some foods - are תֹּועֵבָה so perhaps when someone eats a lobster, It's disgusting to Hashem, so also to me?

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 2:36 pm

amother wrote:

Well said! I have 7 tattoos, from my pre-frum days. If you saw me on the street, you'd never know.

I didn't get them because I wanted other people to see them and admire them, I wanted them because they mean a lot to me personally. It's much more intimate than just what clothing or jewlery you buy to express yourself.

I would get more if I could. Sometimes I even have dreams about getting tattoos done.

groovy1224

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 2:41 pm

shyshira wrote:

So I guess the follow up is - if the Torah says something is a תּוֹעֵבָה (not sure if tattoos are) are we meant to be disgusted, or just Hashem.

Well I suppose that to the perfect Jew, all torah violations are equally abhorrent, be it eating a cookie outside of the sukkah, or extra marital s-x. If your one an only moral compass is the Torah, why would it be any other way?

For most people though, their definition of 'disgusting' comes from a mixture of what the Torah, their community, and general society tells them. So while the Torah may tell me that a widowed childless woman has to spit in the shoe of her brother in law if she doesn't want to marry him, I would not find it appalling to learn that others outside my religion don't do so. Because while it might be the rule religiously, in the larger world, it's a complete non-issue. No one besides my halacha teacher ever told me so, and thus it can't be too much of a biggie, relatively speaking.

When it comes to matters of promiscuity, lying, stealing, and murdering though, it turns out that most societies have unspoken (or sometimes, spoken) rules as well. So I know that I can't murder my neighbor for playing music too loud not just because G-d told me, but also because my government tells me, and my community tells me so, too. So when I hear about a murder, I'm much quicker to denounce it as 'terrible, or 'horrifying' or 'disgusting' because it's regarded as such pretty much universally.

A huge amount of issues are in a gray area. My Torah tells me one thing, but some parts of society agree, and some don't. My community tells me it's okay, but my government doesn't. My government tells me I have to do something, but my Rabbi says I can't. And so on and so forth. So I imagine that in the area of topless beaches (or tattoos, I suppose), there's a big difference of opinion because for some, it's regarded as abhorrent by all their influences. But someone who grew up secular in France wouldn't see it nearly as horrible because for a large part of their life, their community and society told them it was fine.

For some, whatever the Torah says is the deciding vote, but for others, it may be less so.

All of which is just a long way of saying whether or not you find it disgusting just depends on how you yourself establish what 'disgusting' is.

penguin

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 3:14 pm

Sheratzim are one chok that Klal Yisroel are meant to find disgusting, though, and I think most of us do? It's explained about "hama'aleh eschem me'Eretz Mitzrayim" - that we're meant to become elevated & therefore above such behavior.

treestump

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 3:23 pm

I think many tattoos are beautiful. If it wasn't prohibited, I'd definitely get at least one.

Miri7

Mon, Jul 10 2017, 4:07 pm

For me, some foods or gross things are disgusting. I do feel disgusted by people's abuse of one another.

But in general, I don't find people or their actions disgusting simply because they're forbidden by Halacha. To me, being disgusted by people's violation of Halacha, or of non Jews doing things we are forbidden to do, smacks of judgment.

I strive not to judge others, not to judge their observance, and focus instead on my own observance and cultivating strong, good middot in myself.