Does hashem listen to our tifilos if we say them out loud?

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:08 pm

Someone posted a wonderful story about how she was in a bad spot and she "talked" to hashem out loud and the yeshua came instantly. I don't want to post on that thread, but I'm trying to understand. I always read here how hashem is not a vending machine, we don't understand the ways of hashem, and the like. Am I to believe that talking to hashem supersedes all else? That while we don't have the slightest clue of hashem's cheshbon, if we ask out loud for things, we are more likely to be granted our request than if we daven quietly? Is it fair to say that we indeed understand that part of hashem?

amother

Powderblue

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:21 pm

I am the OP of that thread. I am glad you brought this up.

DH & I are non believers due to our upbringing and past trauma's. We have really strayed from "the path".

No, we are not happy. Yes, we are looking to change this but we are starting from the ground up.

For me. this wasn't proof that whatever I will voice to Him, He will answer. To me, it was just a one time sign I so desperately, sub consciously, needed.

The night before this happened, DH spoke to someone that is knowledgeable and understands our language. He was saying that we don't need to be 100% perfect in every aspect of religion in order to talk to Him. DH & I made up that we will give it a try. And then this happened the next day...

Needless to say, I had goose bumps.

SixOfWands

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:35 pm

amother wrote:

Let's say Hashem sent this relative because that poster needed him. Well, when exactly did Hashem send him? Was it as she said the words? In order to believe that, we would have to believe that Hashem plucked the guy from wherever he was, even a block away, and plunked him down as the poster asked for a ride. But we know that didn't happen. We know that he was going wherever he was going, and happened by at that time. So even if its not a coincidence, it was set in motion well before she said a word, and would he would have driven by, prayer or not.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:40 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

A) maybe she wouldn't have looked up and seen him drive by

B) Maybe G-d set it up that he would drive by because G-d knew she will say the prayer.

I don't try to understand the intricacies of the way G-d runs His world. I just pray. Sometimes He answers me right away and sometimes He doesn't.

iyar

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:51 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I don't try to understand the intricacies of the way G-d runs His world. I just pray. Sometimes He answers me right away and sometimes He doesn't.

Exactly.

SixOfWands, your comment doesn't really make sense.
There is no concept of time for HKBH. We live in a time-bound world. Concepts like now, before and after determine our understanding of events and permeate our consciousness so we can't understand this.
Just as we can't understand anything else about how Hashem runs the world.

chicco

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:58 pm

I think Hashem is responsive to those who have a relationship with Him. Crying out/talking to Him are functions of having a relationship. When you relate to Hashem in this way, whether it's as obvious or not, you see His response. Hashem is not obligated to respond as you want Him to. He's simply obligated to respond. Those who reach out in an attempt at a relationship with Him are more likely to understand that He is responding. Just as anyone in a true relationship doesn't simply demand things, we don't do that with Him either.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:01 pm

Do ants understand why we step on them, or don't step on them? Do dogs know why we feed them in the morning before davening, and not in the evening after mincha? Do cats understand why we clean their litterbox?

The mind of Hashem is as far from us as our mind is from a lowly animal. B'H, we have the Torah to explain as much to us as we are capable of understanding.

To answer the question in the title, I believe that Hashem hears all of our teffilot, whether we say them out loud, whisper them, think them in our heads, or write them in a journal. It doesn't matter if it's in English, Hebrew, or Aramaic.

It's the desire to connect that counts, not the delivery method.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:03 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Ok, would you say that prayer helps? Do you believe that hashem will grant you what you need if you daven for it more So than if you don't daven at all? I hate asking these type of questions, but I always think about it when I read posts about people davening and getting their desired result. I wonder what about the good people that are davening and still don't have their health, shidduchim, etc. So for the person that was answered we say, see, hashem listens to tefila! And for the many that are suffering we just say, we don't understand hashem.

Seas

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:04 pm

I once heard a shiur from Rav Shimshon Pinkus ztzl in which he gave an excellent analogy. Imagine standing on a ladder when it starts to sway. You'd shout out to the person next to the ladder, "Grab that ladder, I'm falling!" and you just know that person will save you.

With exactly the same clarity and reliance is how you should ask Hashem for your needs.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:10 pm

amother wrote:

This is not a stupid question. I will never forget when my mom told me "G-d always answers your prayers. It's just that sometimes the answer is "no" or "not now"."

When I was little I used to pray for a truckload of chocolate bars to show up in my driveway, and I believed with perfect faith that it would come. Every morning I would run to the front door and look for it!* My mom told me that maybe G-d doesn't want me to get a tummy ache or cavities.

We need to trust that Hashem will send us only good, and that if the answer is "no", it's also for the good.

*If only we could daven for Moshiach with the faith that I had in a truckload of candy bars, we'd have full redemption right NOW.

iyar

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:15 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, prayer helps. Prayer is necessary.
Hashem in His infinite kindness prepares wonderful things for us. Prayer is the conduit that delivers them to us. It's like attaching a pipe to a spring to make the water flow in your direction. Every prayer is heard and answered, but not every specific blessing that is requested is meant to come to the person asking.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:18 pm

Seas wrote:

But it's hard to even define our needs. On one hand we acknowledge that we are not even a speck of dust next to hashem, and from there we give hashem suggestions. Hashem I need this. Hashem I need that. Why don't we just trust hashem to steer us as he sees fit? If there's an older single, we don't say that hashem knows what he's doing. We daven that hashem changed his mind. We suggest to hashem that his idea is bad and here's a better one. When someone is having serious problems with their children, we don't trust in hashem that it's for the best. We tell hashem that he needs to see it our way and fix things. Since hashem created a master plan, why don't we simply trust it instead of constantly asking hashem to alter his plan?

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:20 pm

amother wrote:

Yes. Prayer helps. Doesn't mean He always answers me the way I want Him to.

yksraya

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:23 pm

Yes, talking to hashem helps. I don't think it matters if said loudly or quietly, but really having faith and a connection helps.

Only a few days ago, I had a miraclously speedy birthing experiance. I have no doubt it took so fast bec I asked hashem to help me.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:27 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Yes. Prayer helps. Doesn't mean He always answers me the way I want Him to.

I hope your right. Are you saying prayer helps in a real and tangible way, or it helps for the neshama in the next world? In other words if I take 100 single women over 30 years old. Let's say in this example 50 of them daven and say tehilim for a year asking hashem to find them a shidduch. Of course they are putting in practical hishtadlus as well and trying to date. The other 50 woman don't daven at all. They only send their resumes to shadchanim and also attempt to date. Would you say that the group of 50 that davens will likely find more shidduchim than the other group since they davened?

chicco

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:32 pm

Davening isn't about getting a specific result. It's about developing a relationship with Hashem. Communication is key in a relationship. It is more likely that those who have a relationship with Hashem have a better understanding of where they are holding and why. Good and bad things happen to everybody regardless of prayer. But those in tune have a better acceptance level than those who don't pray. They also have better tools to handle and navigate what Gd sends their way.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 5:40 pm

chicco wrote:

It's hard to say that davening is not about getting a specific result. When someone is sick, we daven for them to get better. That's pretty specific. When someone needs a shidduch, we daven they should find one. When we bench rosh chodesh, we specifically ask hashem for things like health and parnasah. It's hard to argue that we are not specific with our requests.

TranquilityAndPeace

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 6:11 pm

Sometimes Hashem has the "prize" ready and waiting for the recipient, but a certain amount of prayer is necessary to bring it to fruition.

During the 6 days of creation, it didn't rain BECAUSE there was no man to pray for rain. Hashem had the rain all prepared, and in His Infinite Wisdom decided that the rain needed prayer in order to come.

I think of this often when I ask Hashem for things - perhaps He has my "prize" nearly ready for me, and in the heavenly bookkeeping system, it needs a certain amount of prayer. Possibly, I need to pray a certain amount of times, with a certain level of intent (kavanah), and/or understanding that this thing will come from HIM and not from my own efforts.

ETA- and perhaps the Quickbooks system Upstairs has decreed that I will not get this thing until x date or ever! In that case, prayer is not wasted. It brings me closer to Hashem, and can help me with other things, even if I didn't receive my specific request.

chicco

Thu, Jul 13 2017, 8:22 pm

amother wrote:

Obviously when we daven we ask for specific things. What I meant was the end result isn't for what we are asking, but for the process. That's why I believe Hashem set it up that way. By us reaching out for a relationship with Hashem and expanding on that relationship we are morphing ourselves into a person who is shiach to what we are asking for. If we don't have something, there is a reason for it. By davening, which is not simply asking, but investing in our relationship with Hashem, we are affecting our status, hopefully effecting change in a way that makes whatever we were hoping for shiach to us.