Day camp "bunk"? | Imamother

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 9:04 am

etky wrote:

I attended nursery school and kindergarten at Yeshiva Ohel Moshe in Brooklyn.
I distinctly remember being told that I was in pre-1a - not kindergarten- as if it was a step above or something. I thought this was something particular to this school-had no idea that it existed elsewhere too (my own kids went to gan chova Smile

). Never heard the term again afterwards...
Regarding briefcase: growing up in the seventies, we had stiff school bags with a handle and front closure that somewhat resembled what people nowadays associate with lawyers of business people. Soft knapsacks came into fashion a bit later.

I suspect that "pre 1a" terminology was borrowed from the surrounding culture. According to older relatives who attended NYC public schools in the 1940's, students started school at either of two points in the school year depending on birthday, hence first-graders were either in 1a or 1b. Preschool was unknown in that generation, but kindergarten (age 5, prior to first grade) was becoming standard in public schools. How/why yeshivas started calling kindergarten "pre 1a" and the year before (age 4) "kindergarten" is not clear to me. Anyone?

I had a briefcase in nursery school in the early 1970's! If it isn't rectangular and made for papers, it isn't a briefcase. I also recall that backpacks weren't fashionable until later. I would say that "knapsack" is a synonym for "backpack," although less often used. The item in the photo is a rucksack, I think. The type used by serious hikers is only called a backpack, and is quite different from a school bag.

watergirl

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 9:08 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Do you mean to say all frum people use this slang?

No. These are East Coast frum words. The midwestern frum overnight camp that I went to for years did not use the word bunk, we used the word cabin. My sister went to camp ramah which was referred to up thread, and they didn't use either term, they actually called by the Hebrew word, Tzrif. And I worked at a kosher food chicken restaurant in a midwestern city, and we use the words boneless skinless chicken breast, breast, legs, thighs, wings, and only the people visiting from the East Coast would come in and ask for a cutlets or chicken bottom.

Even and then non frum World, words are used differently based on the geographic location. For example. Some say water fountain and other people call it a bubbler. There's a ton of examples like this.

DrMom

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 9:35 am

amother wrote:

In terms of "Frumspeak" I've heard both "knapsack" and "briefcase", my husband used to refer to "undergarments" of mine-but referring to all kinds. He also tends to refer it as a "restroom" as opposed to a bathroom. However, my husband is not a FFB.

I mean I understand that "bunk" comes from "sleep-away camp" but one can argue that "camp" in general refers to "camping outside"I.e. sleeping in a tent --which is NOT what happens in day camp either . thus we're already borrowing the term. In school we refer to the "groups" as "grades" and "classes" so in camp I don't think it's "weird" to refer to the groups as "bunks" Especially in many camps--depending on the crowd and the size the "groups" tend can be mixed ages.

FWIW, this is from Wikipedia on "Camp" in general, it does not differentiate between over-night and day-camp (evidenced in the U.S. paragraph further on in the article not quoted here):

"In most camps, the young adult or teenage supervisors are called counselors or "cabin leaders". In many camps, counselors are assigned to small groups of campers, called "bunks", "huts", "cabins", or "units", who participate in activities as a group, such as campfires, hiking, canoeing, swimming, nature lore, arts and crafts. Counselors often share living accommodations with their group."

Camp in general does appear to be more of an American phenomenon as the U.S. seems to have a longer summer break. Day Camp seems to be more of a "religious" phenomenon as it seems secular kids tend to go to "sports camp" or "Drama camp" or "Science camp" or "academic camp" or even "scout camps" as opposed to a general interest "Day camp" which tend to be run by religious organizations--both Jewish and Christian.

Do you mean to tell me that you looked in *Wikipedia* and concluded that day-camps and overnight camps call groups of children "huts" or "bunks" or "cabins?"

Wikipedia ambiguity aside, as someone who grew up in a more-or-less secular household and who attended both secular are Jewish (although not necessarily Orthodox) daycamps and sleepover camps, I can tell you that nobody there would call a group of children a "hut" or a "cabin" or a "bunk" unless they were actually assigned to a physical building with this name.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 10:03 am

DrMom wrote:

From experience, I've never heard of "cabins" or "huts", but I've heard "bunk" all the time. My extrapolation of the article is that since it talks about "Camp" and then in the country articles, mainly the U.S. articles it then subdivides camp vs day-camp, that's why I said that the distinction isn't made. While day camps don't have "berths" with beds, in the same way as overnight camps do, many do have assigned "room"s which I've heard to as "bunk rooms" I.e. the room where your group meets, changes for swimming, and keeps personal belongings much like a "bunk house". Many day camps such a nature or sports camps that are located mainly outside and meet by assigned trees or other posts--so I don't know what they would call them in this case.

SixOfWands

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 10:20 am

DrMom wrote:

I grew up entirely secular, and attended non-Jewish day camps. My brother attended a day camp run by the Xtian Brothers (although it was, oddly, predominantly Jewish). At each camp, the group of kids were always referred to as "bunks."

ETA -- I'm not from NY.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 11:34 am

watergirl wrote:

Of course. But her insinuation that "borrow me a pencil" is considered proper English by frum Jews really irked me. There's a difference between slang and English as a second language.

amother

Natural

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 11:57 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Of course. But her insinuation that "borrow me a pencil" is considered proper English by frum Jews really irked me. There's a difference between slang and English as a second language.

Interchanging borrow and lend isn't so common in the frum world. There are many Yiddishisms used in the community I live in. This isn't one of them. In Yiddish borrowing (burgen) and lending (fahrlayin) are completely different words. It is in Hebrew where L'halovos can mean either one that causes this misspeak.

The only people I hear confuse Hebrew and English are Yeshiva bochurim who spend the entire day learning from Hebrew texts. For someone immersed the whole day in Hebrew, English really isn't a second language.

For their part Yeshiva Bochrim don't consider their colloquialisms and idioms to be English. As in the song "Yeshivshe raid"

33055

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 12:17 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Of course. But her insinuation that "borrow me a pencil" is considered proper English by frum Jews really irked me. There's a difference between slang and English as a second language.

It is borrow me some money. Borrow me a car. You got eggs to borrow me.

I don't think they would use English slang in any event. They grew up hearing this in their homes.

The expression "by" as a substitute for during or at is the one that is widespread.

I ate by his house. I did my math homework by English.

mommyla

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 12:21 pm

I didn't grow up on the East Coast and we had "bunks" in day camp. Sort of the equivalent to "classes" in school.

And we went to Pre-1A, and wore backpacks (not knapsacks, and "briefcase" drives me crazy), and used notebooks (not binders or looseleafs!). I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "can you borrow me..." in my 10 years of living on the East Coast (and many more years of going to camp with NYers).

Also, "by his house" is not okay but I do hear many people saying it.

SixOfWands

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 12:32 pm

Squishy wrote:

Chicken breasts are called chicken cutlets.
Chicken cutlets are called schnitzel.
Capons are dark meat chicken cut off the bone.

Bras are called underwear.

Borrow me means lend me.

I don't think that "cutlet" is frum-speak. AFAIK, its a universal term for a skinless, boneless cut of meat, usually chicken.

Quote:

In the culinary arts, the term cutlet is used to refer to a thin cut of meat usually taken from the leg or rib section of veal, pork or lamb. Chicken cutlets can be made from a thinly sliced and pounded chicken breast. Similarly, a turkey cutlet can be made from a thin slice of a turkey breast.

https://www.thespruce.com/what.....95640

OTOH, I don't know what a chicken bottom is. I'm not entirely sure I want to know, either. Nor am I familiar with "borrow me." I am familiar with "let me hold ..." for "lend me ...."

SixOfWands

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 12:45 pm

nylon wrote:

I went to a non Jewish day camp on Long Island (lots of Jewish campers though). We had bunks. (We also did have actual physical rooms with our cubbies and stuff)

My kid's day camp just has groups.

I wonder if it's something that crosses Jewish/New York lines. also I know non Jews who do day camp that isn't specifically sports/arts/drama.

I think that the specialized day camps are more recent inventions. There are tons of non-religious, general purpose day camps out there.

33055

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 12:52 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Squishy wrote:
Chicken breasts are called chicken cutlets.
Chicken cutlets are called schnitzel.
Capons are dark meat chicken cut off the bone.

Bras are called underwear.

Borrow me means lend me.

I don't think that "cutlet" is frum-speak. AFAIK, its a universal term for a skinless, boneless cut of meat, usually chicken.

Quote:
In the culinary arts, the term cutlet is used to refer to a thin cut of meat usually taken from the leg or rib section of veal, pork or lamb. Chicken cutlets can be made from a thinly sliced and pounded chicken breast. Similarly, a turkey cutlet can be made from a thin slice of a turkey breast.

https://www.thespruce.com/what.....95640

OTOH, I don't know what a chicken bottom is. I'm not entirely sure I want to know, either. Nor am I familiar with "borrow me." I am familiar with "let me hold ..."

You are misunderstanding me. Before I moved to Monsey, I referred to a bone in chicken breast as a chicken breast. Perhaps the same people that don't allow little girls to appear in advertisements and edit out Hillary from newspapers are the ones who don't allow chicken breasts to be called chicken breasts.

I have a package of what you, I, and The Spruce would call cutlets labeled as schnitzel in my freezer right now. I double checked just now. They are raw chicken cutlets.

It is not common in my circles to say breast. Chest or nursing are more often used.

I am by far a language expert. I just know what I hear that jars me.

amother

Natural

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 1:07 pm

Squishy wrote:

I have a package of what you, I, and The Spruce would call cutlets labeled as schnitzel in my freezer right now. I double checked just now. They are raw chicken cutlets.

It is not common in my circles to say breast. Chest or nursing are more often used.

This is not a frum concept alone. In the famous 1970s TV show, Archie Bunker, he and people like him were also made fun of for talking that way. Not talking that way was considered the new liberal and enlightened approach.