s/o psa being insulted is not a jewish ideal

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 6:46 am

Modeh ani lifanecha mekech chai vkayam....

Good morning ladies. Just saw the heading below, would you be insulted if...

Well guess what? For many years of my life, I probably would have been . Now not so much. Do yourself a favor, learn the iggeret haramban. You will see that if you hear something insulting, you attitude can (maybe should) be

"I was meant to hear that. Hashem wanted me to, for my benefit."

Internalize this (easier said than done), and you'll never be insulted again.

Yes I am oversimplifying. But it still bears thinking about.

Have a great day :-) !!

amother

Violet

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 7:50 am

amother wrote:

But that's not the jewish way..... whenever something that we perceive to be bad happens to us, big or small, we ask hashem to change it for us. Someone is sick? Needs a shidduch or a job? We don't say "this is what hashem wants". We ask hashem to change the decree.

amother

Lilac

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 9:36 am

I can't say you're completely right because sometimes we do get insulted rightfully so.

But when I see so many people not talking to MILs or to their own parents or siblings, is hurts.
So many times the comments were just dumb, and instead of having thick skin and letting it go, people get upset forever.

I could have been cut off from my father, my MIL, and even DH a hundred times, and for good reasons, but I chose not to take things so to heart.

I wish people would be a bit stronger.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 10:01 am

amother wrote:

Kol hakavod to you. I don't know what this is a spinoff from but a few thoughts:
Sinas chinam doesn't mean hating for no reason. It means hating for a petty reason. We should be above it, bigger people. Or, in some situations, we could easily or somehow be dlkz.
And if we are truly insulted, yes, I believe that there is a reason for us to hear it. Sometimes the reason might be the opportunity of being insulted without striking back - such a person has a great capacity to give brachos. I would think, to him/herself too.

Iymnok

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 10:05 am

If someone attacks your weak point, even unknowingly, it hurts. Like a friendly slap on your sunburned back.
It hurts. It's normal. The question is how to process the pain and grow from it.

But to tell your sunburnt friend to "grow a thicker skin", that's insensitive and just doesn't work. You just opened a wound with your friendly slap, it won't heal on your say so.

There are two sides, how you approach the situation yourself, and how you respond to someone else in a situation (that's hard/hurtful to them).
Maybe you need to learn sensitivity as much as they need a thicker skin?

groovy1224

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 10:32 am

Did you even read the thread you're spinning off of?

While obviously we believe that everything that is said to/happens to us for a reason, people are still human, that doesnt mean that if you get your feelins hurt you are acting 'unJewish.' Please.

If that were the case, why would the Torah forbid us from spreading loshon hara? From speaking harshly to widows and orphans? From being cruel to your friend? From asking rude questions in a Shiva house? If no one has any reason to be hurt because anything I say about or to them was meant for them to hear, why such restrictions?

Because the Torah understands that people are people and have vulnerabilities and feelings and flaws. Let's not try and be frummer than G-d, shall we?

amother

Coffee

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 11:04 am

My husband mocked my orgasms. I should have let it roll off my back because of Iggeres Haramban?

I swear, the constant push to be DLKZ is stripping away our communal ability to recognize abuse when it's staring us in the face.

Causing people to feel insulted isn't Jewish. Save your mussar for poor OP's husband.

marina

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 11:11 am

Two good quotes from the secular world:

Quote:

Never ascribe to malice what you can ascribe to stupidity instead.

I love that because I think it's really true. People who say hurtful things are often just clueless.

Also from Eleanor Roosevelt:

Quote:

No one can insult you without your consent.

I'm a little less on board with that one, but I think it's still a good idea to keep in mind.

octopus

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 12:22 pm

Maybe the Jewish response to someone insulting you is taking that angry energy and using it for something constructive. Even if it means a constructive answering back! (and avoid carrying the hurt feelings around for days, weeks, etc.)

imasoftov

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 12:57 pm

I'm also curious about what in Igeret Haramban could be understood as 'You will see that if you hear something insulting, you attitude can (maybe should) be "I was meant to hear that. Hashem wanted me to, for my benefit."'

Hebrew - http://www.sefaria.org/Iggeret.....ng=he
English - http://www.pirchei.co.il/speci.....n.htm

Last edited by imasoftov on Sun, Jul 23 2017, 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Coffee

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 1:37 pm

imasoftov wrote:

I'm also curious about what in Igeret Harambam could be understood as 'You will see that if you hear something insulting, you attitude can (maybe should) be "I was meant to hear that. Hashem wanted me to, for my benefit."'

Hebrew - http://www.sefaria.org/Iggeret.....ng=he
English - http://www.pirchei.co.il/speci.....n.htm

I agree. Hearing my husband's never ending insults, and recognizing them for what they really were, finally stopped me from modeling abuse for my children.

This "turn the other cheek" garbage is for ovdei Avodah Zarah, not frum Jews who are supposed to be better than it.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 4:19 pm

amother wrote:

It's for when you're dealing with healthy people/not a high level of dysfunction/when there is nothing else one can do at the moment.
It's not garbage.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 4:41 pm

amother wrote:

can some dear member please tell me what the abbreviation of the thread title - S/o psa stands for?

TIA Smile

S/O is spinoff. I don't know what thread this is a spinoff from so I hope my comments are helpful.
PSA is Public Service Announcement.

amother

Amethyst

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 4:45 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

S/O is spinoff. I don't know what thread this is a spinoff from so I hope my comments are helpful.
PSA is Public Service Announcement.

wow! that was fast. Thank you.
I don't really understand the title/thread - spinoff: public service announcement being insulted is not a Jewish ideal.

Oh well... Smile

amother

Amethyst

Sun, Jul 23 2017, 4:53 pm

marina wrote:

Two good quotes from the secular world:

Quote:

Never ascribe to malice what you can ascribe to stupidity instead.

I love that because I think it's really true. People who say hurtful things are often just clueless.

Also from Eleanor Roosevelt:

Quote:

No one can insult you without your consent.

I'm a little less on board with that one, but I think it's still a good idea to keep in mind.

Actually, I like the one from E. Roosevelt - the second quote. I find it empowering.
Seems to me that she means it's all in one's attitude, and choice.
"I can/will choose if I'm going to be insulted or not, from xyz's hurtful words."
Great!