Are there any kosher places in providence, newport, or conne

tichellady

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 4:10 pm

amother wrote:

Please don't rely on anonymous websites or imamothers. The hashgacha referred to in the above posts regarding Providence is not reliable, there are a number of issues with it. And no, it's not "politics"." I am not particularly learned, but even I realize that some things are not okay.

Since you shouldn't rely on me (an anonymous person on the Internet)-- you can ask your LOR if he can find out about this supervision. You can also call the KVH in Boston, or Rhode Island Kosher (google them) and ask them. These two agencies are recognized as reliable by other agencies, including the Star-K in Baltimore.

hatzlacha and have fun! If you need travel information, you can PM me. The user Hashem Yazor wil give you my user name (we are IRL friends)

anonymous because of location

There are no anonymous websites or imamothers in this discussion. I am sure that there are plenty of people who hold by the hashgacha and plenty who don't. I'm sure the rabbi giving it and his congregants believe it's reliable. I think everyone in this thread has been pretty clear that there are kosher options that are not considered ok by the entire community, but that doesn't mean they don't exist for those who are fine with them.

amother

Lime

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 4:34 pm

amother wrote:

And I know the rabbi certifying the providence restaurants IRL. He is an Orthodox rabbi and I'm not sure why it's ok to publicly defame him. Don't eat there if you don't want but this post rubbed me the wrong way. You would be offended I am sure if someone bashed your rabbi publicly.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 5:35 pm

Lol. When I say "anonymous" amothers, it's an expression to mean random people on the Internet. just because people post under their screen name, they are still anonymous strangers on the Internet. My point is to the OP is that (s)he doesn't know any of us, and it behooves her to do her own research --with people who she knows as reliable-- as to the reliability of any point that's being said here.

Anyway, just want to point out that my post did not contain any defamatory remarks regarding the character of the Rabbi who provides supervision. That being said, his supervision relies on many, many leniencies that are not acceptable by many other kashrus agencies. In fact, I am aware of a particular leniency in his supervision that I doubt most shomer-kashrut, yirei shamayim people would be okay with in their own home.

Look, I don't know about you and where you hold on these things: But let me give you an example. If I'm concerned about a growth, do I go to a 3rd year oncology resident at Main Street General Hospital? Or do I try to get an appointment with a specialist with 10 years
experience at Sloan Kettering?

If most of the Rabbonim in the state-- who have more experience and have a stronger yeshiva background-- say that these places aren't kosher, why shouldn't I listen to them? 5-6 people are saying this food is not-kosher. If I believe that non-kosher food is harmful to my neshama, then would I take a chance? I certainly wouldn't go with 1 against 5 chance if it were physical poison. So why would I in this case?

Again, people can do whatever they want. But I am not aware of any Rabbi in southern New England who is active in kashrus that agrees that this supervisions is acceptable. I think it's a disservice to the OP to just dismiss this as "oh, some people don't eat there." There are real, Torah-based reasons why the majority of shomer shabbos households in the area don't eat there. the OP should know that so she can make an informed decision. We don't make kashrus decisions based on whether or not a person is I a nice guy.

Quote:

You would be offended I am sure if someone bashed your rabbi publicly.

Actually, I wouldn't. If someone was saying the emes, why would I be offended?
And if what someone was saying was total nonsense....then even more so!

I hope the OP has a wonderful vacation in the smallest state with the longest name. We grow by 3% at low tide!

tichellady

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 6:10 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

You would be offended I am sure if someone bashed your rabbi publicly.

Why don't you call the rabbi and ask him why he relies on these leniencies? You may learn something interesting. I am sure he has a reason. You may not agree with it, but at least you will understand where he is coming from. There is likely a rationale, I am sure it's not a thoughtless decision.

If you learn the laws of kashrut you will see that it's not like something has to be 100% "kosher" to be kosher- there are rules of bittul and what to do if a pile of non kosher food got mixed with kosher food or what to do if you aren't sure if the chicken you have is from the kosher butcher or non kosher butcher. The answer isn't " be as strict as you can be since non kosher food is like poison" - there is the concept that something is kosher even if the ingredients may not be 100% kosher and that there are other values that may trump something being 100% kosher ( like shalom Bayit, not wasting food, etc). - it's not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

I have no idea who the OP is. I assume that if she cares a lot about about being more machmir on kashrut then the fact that I said that not everyone eats at those places would be enough for her to do her own research and make Her own decision.

Your comparison is rather Insulting- you are implying that someone who learned at modern orthodox institutions is less qualified to pasken than someone with a more "yeshivaish" background. When a rabbi is more lenient it doesn't mean he's less educated- sometimes it takes a more learned person to be able to say " yes" and not just say everything is assur. I don't think you are trying to be Insulting here, but I want you to understand why it is Insulting.

One more point that I recognize is controversial but I think is worth thinking about - one could argue that there is more reason to trust a pulpit rabbi who is certifying kashrut for his community and not doing it as his parnassah than a rabbi whose entire livelihood is based on certifying restaurants and is very financially invested in the whole enterprise. You don't have to find this argument compelling but you should know that plenty of people in the modern orthodox community feel this way.

amother

Ginger

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 6:56 am

tichellady wrote:

.

Your comparison is rather Insulting- you are implying that someone who learned at modern orthodox institutions is less qualified to pasken than someone with a more "yeshivaish" background. When a rabbi is more lenient it doesn't mean he's less educated- sometimes it takes a more learned person to be able to say " yes" and not just say everything is assur. I don't think you are trying to be Insulting here, but I want you to understand why it is Insulting.

.

I'm sorry that it was understood that way. Chas V'shalom that I would imply that someone who has smicha from YU has a smicha that's less valid than someone from a "black hat yeshiva."

My parable was meant to point out the actual time spent in yeshiva. The said rabbi has a more limited yeshiva background. He spent 2 years at HaKotel (or whatever its called now), then went to YU smicha. He has a law practice (and as a praise to his character, my understanding is that he takes on A LOT of pro bono clients) and is also a pulpit Rabbi. This is in contrast to the others involved in kashrus in this city, who learned in yeshiva 10+ years, and are full time involved in building and encouraging kashrus in this area, which includes an extensive amount of time of actual limud HaTorah and shimush by other kashrus agencies.

PinkFridge

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:16 am

tichellady wrote:

Earlier in the thread you said, "Providence has a few places but not everyone goes by the hashgacha." Well said. Anyone reading that would be alert to explore further with an IRL person in the know, and that would be that.

Over the years in different places I've been, kashrus coordinators will sometimes say not that a place isn't kosher but "not recommended." Likely for all the reasons mentioned in the post quoted above. I'm not talking about New England restaurants, just a concept: there is a different between asking a shaila after the fact, and creating a bedieved situation.

tichellady

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:55 am

amother wrote:

I guess we don't have the same premise here. I don't think you need 10 years of full time yeshiva learning to be a community rabbi, to be able to pasken the laws of kashrut, or to give kosher certification. I am sure he knows he relies on kulahs that are not mainstream. It's NOT like he had no idea that many Orthodox Jews don't eat at his restaurants.
I still think you should call him and ask him why. Maybe as a pulpit rabbi and lawyer who sees a lot more of real world issues he has a different perspective than rabbis who are fully immersed in the yeshiva/kashrus world