Female picture in the main mishpacha magazine this week

amother

Aubergine

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 9:20 am

watergirl wrote:

Actually, I was told by a mishpacha senior staff member that this was the age that they chose. Yes, arbitrary. No, you dont have to believe me.

And my mommy told me...

Seriously, you really think that someone woke up one day and chose a random age from the top of their hat? Why would they even be interested in doing that....

I'm sure that they got guidance in making their decision. Whether or not your approve of the guidance they received is something else.

cnc

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 9:32 am

It is age 6. They wrote it very clearly in the Junior. I'm not sure what people are arguing about. What's the difference if it's arbitrary, halachic, or whatever else?

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 9:42 am

cnc wrote:

It is age 6. They wrote it very clearly in the Junior. I'm not sure what people are arguing about. What's the difference if it's arbitrary, halachic, or whatever else?

Because it is 2exualizing females before they need to be (not that they ever need to be, but way before they are even developing).

cnc

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 10:10 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Because it is 2exualizing females before they need to be (not that they ever need to be, but way before they are even developing).

I guess I misunderstood the argument then.

Ima_Shelli

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 10:12 am

amother wrote:

Hey, man has been doing this since the beginning of time- coming up with things from the top of their hat, so to speak.

Adam did this with disastrous consequences (adding on to not touch the tree in addition to not eating from it). Just saying- not all stringency is a good thing. And I'm honestly not sure if this particular one is based on Halacha or if it's based on marketing. I keep waiting for a discussion of the halachic basis behind the no pics above age 5 thing but I have never seen one yet.

amother

Ecru

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:29 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Because it is 2exualizing females before they need to be (not that they ever need to be, but way before they are even developing).

Chinuch happens in every area at this age, not just tznius. Why are you choosing to take offense davka when it comes to tznius? Shabbos, kashrus, brachos, mitzvos bein Adam lchavero- all are being practiced at age six already. It only becomes an issue of s-xualizing if that's how you choose to present it.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:30 am

amother wrote:

The difference being, there is no chinch in not showing pictures of female faces.

That being said, I find this whole issues more stupid then offensive.

Last edited by mommy3b2c on Tue, Aug 15 2017, 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

LovesHashem

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 12:10 pm

watergirl wrote:

Actually, I was told by a mishpacha senior staff member that this was the age that they chose. Yes, arbitrary. No, you dont have to believe me.

And yes, its fake torah. It is a very slippery sloap when someone makes a statement that this is done out of sensitivity, or as you said, torah and halacha abiding. This is NOT torah or halacha.

And as others have pointed out on this thread and on multiple others, this is not tradition or mesorah. This is an entirely new phenomenon.

The Torah evolves with the rabanim who are the learders of the generation. Feel free to disagree with them. Sensitivites can become minhag hamakom in certain places. If you aren't up to that don't live in such places, or complain about their "rules and making halacha out of things that clearly aren't mesorah"

LovesHashem

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 12:12 pm

Just because you do not disagree or understand sensitivities doesn't mean they are "wrong" "not mesorah" and "not halacha". You clearly do not have much information on such areas, so why do you you think you can pasken?

watergirl

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 12:42 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

ok. Its halacha? Show me. Its mesorah? Show me again. THhis ban is less than 50 years old. Show me. If you are knowledgeable in these areas to tell me that I am not, then please, be my guest.

tigerwife

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 12:46 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

I wonder where they came up with 6 from?

In my community, girls start wearing long sleeves and knee socks at around 6, so I don't find that cutoff random. It's around the age when girls graduate from toddlerhood, start grade school, etc.

Ima_Shelli

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 1:00 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Who has paskened that pictures of girls 6 and above aren't tznius? I have been asking this for awhile and have not received any answers.

watergirl

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 1:08 pm

Ima_Shelli wrote:

Who has paskened that pictures of girls 6 and above aren't tznius? I have been asking this for awhile and have not received any answers.

Are you on fb? If so, join a group called "put women back in the frum media". Very eye opening.

amother

Smokey

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 1:21 pm

ShoshanaSchwart wrote:

I write for Family First regularly. Currently I'm writing the serial diary "Grab the Reins" about my work in Retorno as an addictions counselor and therapeutic horseback riding instructor.
As you can imagine from the topic of the serial, questions come up all the time as to what can and cannot be written in this venue. Yes, some matters are based on sensitivity - the editors don't want to hurt or offend people, which is so easy to do with the most innocent of statements. But whenever something that has a halachic aspect to it, they don't arbitrarily decide, they ask their rav.

Off topic, but I couldn't pass this opportunity to tell you how much I am enjoying this column In FF. I have a son, who is on his way back on the Depeche and a recovering drug addiction who has bh been clean now for over one year.
I feel like I always learn something new from your column.

dancingqueen

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 1:32 pm

tigerwife wrote:

In my community, girls start wearing long sleeves and knee socks at around 6, so I don't find that cutoff random. It's around the age when girls graduate from toddlerhood, start grade school, etc.

Ah ok. I find it a bit of stretch to extrapolate an age of chinuch and wearing long sleeves to a cut off of not being fit to be seen anymore along with grown women, but an answer apparently being looked into by LovesHashem.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 2:26 pm

amother wrote:

I am choosing to take offense as that is the topic at hand. We are talking about females not being in magazines. We are not talking about shabbat or kashrut.
And once you make something forbidden, it becomes wanted even more. So by not showing any females in magazines, it becomes this thing that one can not have. And that entices people to want it more. Need I say more?

LovesHashem

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 3:44 pm

The Chazon Ish paskens that a female is considered a woman once her phsyicial features appear feminine. That is when she can't show ervah, and he paskens that it is the age of 6.

The rabanim of our generation have said it's inappropriate to post pictures of women publicly, and based on the above consider a girl to be a woman at the age of six. Most mainstream chareidi poskim and gedolim pasken this. I forgot to ask if this is the halacha, but it sounds like it is halacha. I can ask him again for a definitive answer if you guys truly need to know.

LovesHashem

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 3:45 pm

BTW I am not writing the Rav's name here for privacy reasons but he happens to have authored over 12 mainstream well known halacha books. He's not some nobody.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 3:48 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

It's not Halacha. You don't want to publish the pictures, don't publish them. But calling it Halacha makes a mockery of Judaism.