what to tell my kids about jews dressing more immodest

amother

Gold

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:30 pm

I'm spending Rosh Hashanah with my relatives who are very modern. I don't have anything against modern Jews, I try to respect all different types of Jews but my problem is how to explain to my daughter.

She knows she and I have to dress in tznius and I tell her non jews dont dress like us when she sees ppl. Dressing differently but she will be wondering why my relatives are not dressing tznius BC she's young but knows that Jews dress a certain way.

I dont want her to think negatively of my relatives but shell think they are non jews if I don't explain.....shell definitely ask me about it. (my husband was very sheltered and was raised with hardly any interaction with more modern Jews so he thought my relatives were non jews but he's an adult so its easy to explain to him....)

Can anyone advise me as to what to say??? I want my kids to know what's out there but also have respect for all different types of Jews but to know we all struggle with different things, some ppl. Have good midos but may struggle with tznius or.......

amother

Tangerine

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 10:07 pm

amother wrote:

Don't say that they struggle with Tzniyus. Say they have their own rav who tells them what to do, and we follow our rav who tells us what to do.

Maybe. Or maybe they don't and they just don't care about the Halacha.

I'd say something like , "The Halacha says to cover collar bone, elbows, and knees, so that is what our family (and community) does. Other families might have a hard time with this mitzvah, the same way you have a hard time not hitting your sister, even though there is a Halacha not to hit another Jew. Some families don't know exactly what the Halacha says, but they would feel embarrassed if a kid told them they weren't doing it right. The best thing to do when you see someone not keeping a Halacha is to ignore it and think of something else that they do good. Or, you can just ignore it and play with the kids there. If you ever have a question about what another family is doing, wait until we are home to ask me about it and I will be happy to have a conversation with you about it."

amother

Amber

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 10:21 pm

amother wrote:

The rav of their shul may very well hold that sleeves can be up until the elbow, but not covering for example. I don't think it's good to suggest that other people have a hard time with something that is stressed so much and so important in our community. Rather assume that they hold differently, not that they have a hard time and dropped halacha. You want her to respect them and not judge them, and it will be difficult to accomplish that if you don't present it that way.
Unless you are worried that she will want to be like them and do the same if you expose her to the idea that there are people who genuinely interpret halacha differently. In that case you have a different question on your hands.

amother

Pink

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 10:25 pm

The question is better than any answer. Unfortunately there is no good answer, "but mom why do we need this strict rav, please let start following their rav" on the other hand it would be dangerous to equate any hardships to hitting a sister, tomorrow she will say I have a hard time not to turn on lights in Shabbos, etc. Growing up in a shelter has its benefits too.

octopus

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 10:30 pm

I would never highlight the negative in others lack of observance. I don't think it is good chinuch. I grew up in a family that valued kiruv rechokim. I always tell my kids that this is what our family does and give them pride that they grow up in the octopus family. What others do? Either they are not up to it yet(and, yes, this can apply to already "frum" families) or this is what we do in this family.

amother

Amber

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 10:32 pm

Seas wrote:

You don't need to comropise the truth just because others make compromises. You can tell your daughter (if she asks) that some people just don't dress tzniusdik enough, but it's not for her to tell them anything.

At least say " its not our business what they do. We know what we have to do, and of course we shouldn't say anything to make them feel bad."
I really don't like the idea of putting them down, even slightly. But that's just my personal feeling about this.

Miri7

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 12:28 am

If she asks, I'd just tell her that some Jews do things differently as they hold differently. Some people hold by a hecksher that others don't. Then emphasize that you don't judge other people.

You can also give examples on how, for instance, Sephardim hold one way and ashkenazim another. They are both "right" for the person who does it according to their own Rav and tradition.

amother

Gold

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 12:45 am

This is op. Thanks everyone for replying. I will not tell her that they have a hard time with it because it will make her think badly of them.

She is 6 yrs old and very curious and observant.

And to clarify these relatives wear shirts very low and very short skirts in addition to not covering hair. No rav would say it is allowed unless a fake rav""

Im trying to explain somehow that there is a concept of jews who do things differently --she must know that the right thing is how we dress not them but they are good people too. This is hard for me to explain because I dont want to put them down but at the same time. My daughter needs to know that there are laws about tznius we must follow.

In addition, my other kids will probably also be curious bc they are starting to notice things and when I tell them that we do certain things bc we are jewish, it will confuse them when they see others jewish not doing it.

Im not talking about things where different ravs say different things. Those came up already ex. Different hechsharim and I already explained to my kids we hold differently and their rav says different....but these relatives are not following halacha like not covering hair. .....I dont know a rabbi who says you dont have to cover hair at all.....

If anyone does kiruv and has unobservant people or very modern relatives over for shabbos do your kids wonder why they are not "doing what jews are supposed to do"???? What do you tell them???

In general. I have a lot of problems answering my kids questions bc they are young but think a lot about what I say and I dont want to say the wrong thing which will affect how they will grow up and form their own views...I want them to form the correct view

amother

Papaya

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 1:04 am

You have an excellent question,OP.
Just for the record, answering kids' questions when involved in kiruv is a whole lot easier than this scenario. There, you can simply tell your kids that these people were not as lucky as us to grow up frum but hopefully one day they will be. That's not going to cut it with modern relatives. You can say that they don't know better but are still good Jews...

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 1:14 am

The best answer is, we don't talk about other people's clothing. How they dress is up to them.

In the case of different hechsherim, it's reasonable to talk about different standards because they really do exist and because you are impacted by the food being served.

Clothing doesn't affect you, so it's off the table. (For you. How Hashem deals is another matter.) For me it's the same as spending time with someone whose business dealings are less than kosher. I think it's wrong to cheat and I educate my children differently, but I'm not going to bring it up. Let them deal.

seeker

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 2:18 am

I have some relatives who are less observant and comfortable with who they are. I tell my kids not to point out their differences because even though we would love for them to learn more about Torah and mitzvos, it would not feel good to them to hear this from us, and we can't make other people feel bad like that.

As for how to explain why people don't observe [certain] mitzvos, I read something recently that struck me as a good way of looking at it - I think it was in a Mishpacha magazine but I don't remember which and I don't remember the details, it was something I had passed over briefly - it said something like "they don't realize how valuable this mitzvah is to Hashem." I actually think that's a really good explanation. Until now I've been going with the more general idea of "it's between them and Hashem, we don't know why people make their choices."

tichellady

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 2:25 am

amother wrote:

First of all, it depends on how modern... If you mean very modern ... or "dati"... then I would say...

Although you can visit your modern relatives who do not dress tzanua by yourself, it is not a place for your children. I am sure that you have put in tremendous effort in living your life and raising your children right, well, those efforts can be ruined in one minute.

Your relatives' dress is only one part of what your children should not see, and maybe the most parve part. You should be very careful about the secular...influences they may expose to your children... I would be very careful of eating at their house as well...

If you do go, which is a very bad idea.. you can say --if your daughter asks (depending on her age)-- that they nebach do not know.. did not grow up with proper hashkafos...

You can love all jews, but if they act/dress pritzusdik you don't bring your children to them..

I know it is difficult because I am in the same situation kind of, but there are no options.

My children's chinuch is worth these sacrifices... and yes, it is painful.

How is it chinuch to avoid situations where you actually have to explain things to your children? I guess we are coming from two totally different world views but this seems like a rather sad way to deal with challenges and questions that might come up in life for our kids. Pretending things don't exist don't seem like a great long term solution.