All Natural-Hair Wigs Banned Again!

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:09 am

AhavaRabbah wrote:

You know why HappySmile doesn't have to use quotations, because she was one of the writers of the book. Like I mentioned previously....we should be dan l'kaf zechus.

First of all, how would you know that she is one of the authors? And second of all, if she is, she should let people know that. And why would she quote the book instead of just writing it that way?

Last edited by shabbatiscoming on Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total

imasoftov

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:14 am

happysmile1 wrote:

Every woman knows in her heart that there is something intrinsically wrong with a pretty natural looking wig (long or short). They are hypocritical and immodest.
That's why the reaction to the posts about this topic are so heated and bring such negative responses. It hits a real raw nerve in a woman's neshama.
There are many woman today putting on tichels precisely for this reason.
In shamayim we will all stand alone regardless of what our Rav says. And we will have to answer for every man we caused to look our way - this is not an easy thing to swallow

Just for purposes of calibration, if you were on a crusade, what would it look like?

imasoftov

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:16 am

Notsobusy wrote:

happysmile1, I think it is time for you to go ask all of your special rabbonim and rebbetzins if you have a right to tell thousands of frum women that their rabbonim are wrong and that the rabbonim who do know better have their hands tied and so they lie to their constituents. And also ask if you have a right to tell thousands of frum women that if they listen to their rabbonim they are naive sheep, and that their rabbonim will tell only you the truth, because you are one of the only frum woman strong enough to hear it. And please, ask them if it is right or wrong for you to do this especially during the aseres yimei teshuva and if it is correct for you to create such machlokes at this special time.

Then please come back and give us the answers. I'll be waiting. Thanks!

Also ask them if you should be on the internet.

chavamom

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:18 am

Boca00 wrote:

Does he also forbid her book "the secret of Jewish feminity"? Just curious

No. It's Rav Falk's book he takes issue with. He says the psakim contained in it are for a specific community. I was told that he's seen negative outcomes from women learning it as well, but was told this second hand (from a reputable source, however).

Last edited by chavamom on Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total

chavamom

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:22 am

AhavaRabbah wrote:

Did you know that the two main consumers of long, glamours wigs in the US are.....drumroll....Hollywood and the frum

Source?

I think most long wigs in America are actually purchased by people with "ethnic" hair, not frum women or Hollywood.

AhavaRabbah

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:23 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

First of all, how would you know that she is one of the authors? And second of all, if she is, she should let people know that. And why would she quote the book instead of just writing it that way?

Because I know who she is, and I know that she helped write the book.

I'm still waiting for someone to argue back about what I wrote about the Britney Spears sheitels...

AhavaRabbah

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:25 am

chavamom wrote:

Source?

I think most long wigs in America are actually purchased by people with "ethnic" hair, not frum women or Hollywood.

I'd have to get the source tomorrow, it was said on a teleconference. They cited the source, I just don't know it off hand

chavamom

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:26 am

AhavaRabbah wrote:

Because I know who she is, and I know that she helped write the book.

I'm still waiting for someone to argue back about what I wrote about the Britney Spears sheitels...

See above. I think you are mistaken.

Mevater

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:26 am

Tzedek Tirdof wrote:

Also, recall my post where I mention that someone might have a desire for women in the tichel...

If you asked healthy men to vote who looked more zexy? Women in sheitels or women in tichels w hair showing, even if theyre drop dead gorgeous, I dont think most men would hesitate to vote that women in sheitels are zexier.

AhavaRabbah

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:34 am

sorry, you posted before the page refreshed. But anyway, what do you think? Ill tell you the truth. I wasn't born into a religious home. I became frum 12 years ago after I left my home town. And I used to read fashion magazines in high school during lunch break (before I became frum).

What I saw those women wearing in those fashion magazines, are scarily similar to the fashionable long wigs of today. The layered, wavy, just-perfectly-styled long hair...with the pretty highlights....just like the most famous movie stars....should frum women really be wearing these things?

happysmile1

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:36 am

Thanks AhavaRabbah for sticking up for me!
And for your wise words!
I just want to clarify that I'm not the author of the book (I wish!) but I do have permission to post parts of it. I can tell you what pages all the posts are from if you're interested. I did write that it's all from Adorned with Dignity.
I think the specific pages I posted say a tremendous amount. The book has a lot more valuable info for those women looking to grow in this mitzvah.
I'm aware that there are women on this site from across the religious spectrum and I respect that- it doesn't mean I have to change the torahs message about kisui rosh to make women happy. That's actually a major problem in the us- everyone is trying to sell religion to make it more appealing to people. Than we just end up with a watered down inaccurate religion that doesn't keep Halacha properly.

AhavaRabbah

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:38 am

I think it's important to remember the original heter for sheitels was given on wigs made out of sheeps hair. The reason why the Rabbonim of that time said it was 'ok' is because it wasn't attractive, and didn't really look like hair.

How can we say that for our sheitels today? They look amazing and they look totally real!

happysmile1

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:45 am

Rav Elyashiv said that anyone who says that a sheitel is better than a tichel because of the few hairs sticking out is speaking foolish words- as the sheitel was always a controversy among poskim and the tichel is glatt (the best)
I'm not advocating showing any hair and neither was Rav Elyashiv. He meant that if you try to cover all your hair as much as possible and a few tiny hairs escape -it's not better to wear a sheitel cuz one is concerned about those few hairs. There were many poskin that held that a sheitel was like all the hair is showing!
And there any many inventions now that keep all hair in place and tichels from slipping.
Hair could totally show from wigs too.

Orchid

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:48 am

It's page 13 and we're going 'round and 'round in circles.

Theme 1:
Sheitels were only allowed if unattractive.
But my rav allows them.
But your rav is not as big a rav as XYZ who assered them.
Are you saying I shouldn't listen to my rav?
Yes, you should only listen to Big Rabbi XYZ.

Theme 2:
Sheitels are not tzanua because they attract men.
I am allowed to wear my pretty wig because my rav allows me to, so it's therefore not my responsibility/problem if men are attracted to it.
Yes it is, because inherent in the mitzvah is not attracting men.
No it's not, since my obligation to keep tznius has nothing to do with men per se.
Yes, it does.
No, it does not.

And round and round we go. Did I miss anything? Anyone have anything else to add?

Orchid

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 12:58 am

PS - I was told by a co-worker that a male colleague commented to her that my stockinged legs turn him on (true story) and she wanted to know why my skirts (which were not tight and fully cover my knee) are more modest than the pants everyone else wore.
Any idea what to answer her?

(Hint: the torah forbids wearing pants, even if skirts are somehow more attracting. Could we apply this reasoning to sheitels?)

and PPS- I wonder how many of the tichel wearer encouragers work in corporate America? Because I could not show up in my firm wearing a tichel or hat. Like everything in Judaism, nothing is black and white. Perhaps keeping my job and the ability to pay my childrens' tuition and fund their torah learning is more important than the tichel. Or perhaps keeping my job, staving off financial ruin, a shalom bayis nightmare and a broken family is better than ditching the sheitel. Like every single thing else in yiddeshkeit, there are many many shades of grey. And all this even assumes I accept your assertion that tichels are preferential.

and PPPS - the quote above about Rav Elyashiv and the "foolishness" of the tichel claim: I believe the Lubavitcher Rebbe said this. To further back up the whole "eiliu v'eilu" theme.

chavamom

Mon, Sep 25 2017, 1:02 am

AhavaRabbah wrote:

So this is based on your feelings, not halacha. Got it.