Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Fashion and Beauty -> Sheitels & Tichels
All Natural-Hair Wigs Banned Again!
  Previous  1  2  3  4 13  14  15  Next



Post new topic    View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 10:53 am
My rav, who is close to charedi (except he does chol), doesn't recommend Rav Falk reading for people outside Rav Falk's kehila. Different mindsets, customs and all.

The thing is, some rabbis hold hair coveing is modesty, or a siman that you are married, or both, or a chok (= neither). Some hold any way to cover is good barring something ridiculous like a knee length red wig, some hold it must be discrete, some hold you must feel great in it so you're not tempted to chuck it, some hold you must see it's a cover - and then come all th minhagim about how to cover.

I am happy you enjoy Rav Falk. He is not part of my life.
Back to top

happysmile1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 10:55 am
Sorry for the whole drasha!
It's just such a misunderstood mitzvah and so powerful, the yetzer hora is having a field day with this mitzvah

There's an incredible teleconference by Rebbetzin Tehilla Abramov (well known author of The Secret of Jewish Femininity and other popular books) that really explains kisui rosh so beautifully and so clearly. It's called "Treasuring our Femininity" and you can hear it by dialing 917-924-9900, option 1

There's a fantastic teleconference for both men and women called "The Time is Now" by Rabbi Abramov, Rabbi Avraham Chaim Fueur and Rabbi Ehraim Wachsman that also delves in to kisui rosh quite well. You can hear that by dialing 917-979-8200

Both are life changing!
Back to top

Boca00




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:01 am
Ruchel wrote:
My rav, who is close to charedi (except he does chol), doesn't recommend Rav Falk reading for people outside Rav Falk's kehila. Different mindsets, customs and all.


Sorry to go off topic for a second- what do you mean "he does chol"?
Back to top

happysmile1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:03 am
It's not only Rav Falk's opinion!
He's quoting Torah sources. I am a student of Rebbetzin Tehilla Abramov and she's given me many sources where it states clearly that the purpose of kisui rosh is modesty. She told me that it is absolutely not a chok

She wrote a great book on the topic called "The Unique Princess" which has tons of haskamos from many different Gedolim including Rav Elyashiv- it's about modesty and hair covering.
There's another great book on the topic too called "Adorned with Dignity" by Mrs. C T Friedman (author of many books including Daughters of Dignity and Purity of Speech)

Taking off a sheitel is by no means easy at all, but if Rabbanim tell us that it's avoda zora (and immodest) how could we not listen? Especially with the state the world is in right now- it's havoc! We need as much protection as possible.

"Maran Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt”l said that, when Mashiach comes, the first thing he’ll do is abolish the use of wigs (as quoted by his son-in-law, shlita)." (The Unique Princess, page 105)
That definitely scared me
Back to top

ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:03 am
Deleted

Last edited by ProudMommie on Sun, Sep 24 2017, 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:11 am
Two very different issues are being conflated here.
1. Can you even wear a sheitel? Irregardless of the source (so if you had 5 friends cut their hair and made your own sheitel...)

2. This separate issue of Indian hair.

Please- can we have a discussion JUST about the Indian hair? As this topic was about? We are not talking bout R Falk or anyone who follows his Psak. Obviously anyone who is worried about their wig being Indian hair doesn't follow his Psak.
So please stick to Indian Hair.
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:11 am
If there are so many problems with wearing an attractive wig (ervah, eishes ish), then why are the choshuva ladies wearing wigs? I'm just not getting this.
Back to top

LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:14 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
If there are so many problems with wearing an attractive wig (ervah, eishes ish), then why are the choshuva ladies wearing wigs? I'm just not getting this.


R Falk lives in one insulated community where he made a Psak to not wear it. It wasn't accepted worldwide and it definitely isn't accepted by all other Rabannim. Some sefardim hold by R Ovadia Yosef (edited as I mistyped) and don't wear it. But other Rabbanim have different shittahs. Ask your LOR.


Last edited by LittleDucky on Sun, Sep 24 2017, 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

Boca00




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:15 am
LittleDucky wrote:
R Falk lives in one insulated community where he made a Psak to not wear it. It wasn't accepted worldwide and it definitely isn't accepted by all other Rabannim. Some sefardim hold by R Eliyashiv* and don't wear it. But other Rabbanim have different shittahs. Ask your LOR.


I think you mean Rav Ovadia Yosef.
Back to top

happysmile1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:15 am
Thanks for the thank yous!

I am not chas vashalom looking to judge or insult anyone on this forum. I used to wear very long beautiful sheitels and I love fashion- I totally understand how difficult this nisayon is.

I just think women have a right to be educated about this very important mitzvah and than make an INFORMED decision about what they want to wear on their heads. it's not fair that we've been kept in the dark about all this because most Rabbanim feel women are too weak and low level to hear the emes.

And the reality is that it's not worth the attention in this world in exchange for eternity- I used to live for attention (from women and unfortunately men too) but after a few of my close friends became really sick and I studied the topic of modesty I was just blown away by everything I discovered.

Women have no idea that almost all their reward and punishment in the next world is based on their modesty (Peleh Yoetz) and that it's what we are most judged on. Based on the immorality and the immodesty in the secular world it's really clear what the challenge is in our generation. The Chofetz Chaim said the final war before Moshiach will be between morality and immorality- we have to wake up now! And kisui rosh is a major part of our tznius- what we wear on our heads affects every aspect of our lives. Our head covering covers our brain which is where our thoughts are and our nechama. When we wear avoda zora (or any hair from a non jew) or a pritzus item on our head we have a klippah on us- it's going to affect our entire relationship with Hashem.

The fact that so many women react to strongly to anything about this topic (more than any other topic) shows how big this mitzvah is! It's by far the topic that generates the most heated defensive responses from women.
Back to top

Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:17 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
If there are so many problems with wearing an attractive wig (ervah, eishes ish), then why are the choshuva ladies wearing wigs? I'm just not getting this.

Exactly!
Many of the women I admire and respect most wear shietels.
Rebitzens included.
My shietel has a haschgacha on it.
thats it.
Back to top

Chloe22




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:19 am
I work in a setting where I can't wear hats, scarfs, or berets. I don't want to go on the subways with a wrapunzel look. If I can't wear a sheitel to work, I give up.
Back to top

happysmile1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:20 am
I'm sorry for going completely off topic -

If someone cuts off their friends hair and than makes it in to a wig themselves there is no problem of avoda zora.

Every other wig seems to be a problem because there is no way to know where the hair originates from unless someone oversees it from start to finish (which is impossible)

I think anyone that really wants to educate themselves about this topic should email (avodazarafacts@gmail.com) for the full report that they put together. It really explains the issue well.
Back to top

happysmile1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:24 am
Women need to make sure their wigs are not long and natural looking - that's the problem with most of todays wigs. If a woman is going to wear a sheitel - it has to be recognizeable that it's a wig and it can't beautify her otherwise it's defeating the purpose of the mitzvah.

The heter that Rabbanim originally gave on wigs was for very wiggy wigs, they would never have allowed todays wigs.

For anyone interested (please skip this if you have no interest, I personally found this so fascinating):
When one delves into the history of sheitels, it is quite fascinating. Most women mistakenly believe that wigs were worn as head coverings by Jewish women for hundreds of years and that it is part of our mesora. The wigs that were originally mentioned in the Gemara, peah nachris (strange wigs) were never used as head coverings. Women who were balding or had thinning hair wore wigs in the house to make themselves more attractive for their husbands. Women always put on a scarf that covered all of the wig when they went out in public.

Until about 180 years ago Jewish women always wore scarves outside- it was always the traditional headwear of the Jewish woman. About 180 years ago there was a decree in Russia that Jewish women were not allowed to cover their hair outside. The Rabbanim therefore allowed the use of wigs, otherwise women would have been walking around bare headed. The wigs then were extremely unnatural and wiggy looking. The Rabbanim were relying on the heter from the Shiltei giborim, but there were also many Rabbanim at that time that were against this heter- of using wigs as a head covering. They screamed about the use of the wigs. The heter itself is a big machlokas among poskim. Many poskim, Ashkenazic and Sephardic, held that the Shiltei giborim never allowed the use of wigs outside, that he never meant for the wig to be used in rishus harabim, in a public courtyard. (Adapted from Adorned with Dignity)

Of course, now there is an accepted heter in most Ashkenazic circles but the heter was originally only given for very wiggy wigs. As stated in The Unique Princess by Rabbi Yirmiyohu and Tehilla Abramov, "The halachic opinions that permit the wearing of wigs were talking about wigs that were short, unnatural looking, and "wiggy". Such wigs were in use a century ago, explains Maran HaGaon Rav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv, shlita. They were short and stiff, and the hairs did not move from their place." (page 103)
Further on it says, “Rav Elyashiv also clearly stated that in his opinion it is preferable for a woman to cover her hair with a kerchief rather than a wig. He constantly expressed his concern about the use of wigs that are not modest- a practice which, he says, has made inroads even into the families of pious men and roshei Yeshivah.
Back to top

ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:29 am
deleted

Last edited by ProudMommie on Sun, Sep 24 2017, 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:34 am
OY VA VOY. Sorry, sheitels have nothing to do with Russia. They are mentioned in the Gmara. AND 180 years ago ALL WOMEN wore a hat outside, or very often in Russia a tichel.

If you have google translate, read this. For sources http://gamzouletova.blogspot.f......html

The urban legens don't help.

As for doing chol - yup bh that's us. We learn chol courses and graduate from it, read chol books... as long as it's clean. I guess this is more yeshivish than charedi.

Just seen you are on crusade against sheitels and stuff. So IYH I'm stopping here. If some women decide to uncover thanks to you, you can only blame the fanaticism...
Back to top

Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:38 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
If there are so many problems with wearing an attractive wig (ervah, eishes ish), then why are the choshuva ladies wearing wigs? I'm just not getting this.


Because most rabbonim don't agree that there are so many problems with wearing an attractive wig. There is no issue with ervah or eishes ish, because it's NOT YOUR OWN HAIR.

And we are allowed to look attractive, we are allowed to wear makeup, we are allowed to dress in pretty clothing, we are allowed to wear jewelry, we are allowed to wear high heels, and we are also allowed to wear attractive wigs.

There are very few hard rules for tznius, depending on your community there will be hard rules about what must be covered. After that it's all subjective.

I personally don't believe most rabbonim are going to come out against wigs. I didn't take mine off last time and I won't take mine off this time. Like Marina said, if we can take a church and make it into a shul, then we can take hair that was donated for avoda zara and make it into something holy.
Back to top

happysmile1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:40 am
I'm so glad that you got so much chizuk from the posts!

There are many women who recently switched to tichels after getting educated about kisui rosh and the support is very necessary.

Here's some more chizuk for any women who made the switch:
In the book Adorned with Dignity, it states the words of Gedolim describing those women who are able to wear the ideal level of head covering. Not only is the tichel backed by Gedolim it is praised by so many!
On page 86 there is a letter which says:
"We support and bless those women who have returned to the age-old custom of covering their head with a kerchief instead of a wig in order to fulfill the opinion of all poskim... especially in today's times when many of the contemporary wigs are not in line with the guidelines of tznius." (Letter signed by Harav Shmuel Halevi Wosner zt"l; Harav Lipkowitz; Harav R' Hager, Rebbe of Viznitz, Harav Karelitz, Harav Shmuel Auerbach (in name of his father, Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt"l); Harav Gestetner, yb"l; Harav Elyashiv zt"l.)

And there are many more Gedolim that have praised those women who are able to achieve this high level of tznius. There is one particular story that Rebbetzin Abromav told me that I loved. There was a woman whose mother only wore scarves who came to Rav Elyashiv to ask for a heter for a sheitel. The Rav told her that he could give her a heter for a kosher wig (which meant short, stiff and wiggy) if that is what she wants, but if she wears a tichel like her mother always did, he promised her Gan Eden!!
Back to top

mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:41 am
ProudMommie wrote:
kol hakovod!!!!

You said everything and those with yirat shamaim will hear you...thank you!

""While I don't worship my looks, I enjoy liking SMART and put together. What is wrong with that?""

That mentality hurts us. You dont look smart when u wear a sheitel. You look like a g-ya...unless u think that when u look like a g-ya you look smart....


Maybe you should work on not insulting thousands of Jewish women. That seems to be equally important as not wearing a shaitel.


Last edited by mommy3b2c on Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

marina




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 24 2017, 11:42 am
happysmile1 wrote:
Modesty is the PRIMARY reason why married women cover their hair.
I was really confused about this mitzvah so I did a lot of research on the topic.

A major part of the confusion is that women think that as long as their hair is physically covered they are perfectly fulfilling the mitzvah of kisui Rosh. Some women know that there is a vague connection between kisui Rosh and tznius but most are not aware that modesty is the primary purpose of the mitzvah. The reason that the Torah prohibits a married woman to reveal her hair is the following:
אסור גלוי הראש אינו אלא משום פריצות דגברי (תרומת הדשן)
The prohibition of revealing one’s hair is because hair is Pritzus. Since the hair of a married woman is attractive to another man and can cause him to sin, it must be covered. All the Rishonim and Achronim have said that this is the reason that a woman must cover her hair in public. (For many sources on this Divrei Shalom is a great resource.)

Rav Falk writes in his pamphlet Mitzvos Kisui Saaros that "The Torah requires a married women to conceal her hair from the eyes of the public in order to lessen attraction to herself." (page 7)
He continues: "An unmarried maiden may attract attention to herself (within the boundaries of tznius) so that she is sought after and eventually marries (Ta'anis 13a and Kesubos 52b). Similarly, a man may look at a girl and take an interest in her appearance, chein, mannerisms etc. if he is considering her for marriage for himself or someone else. A married woman may, however, neither attract attention to herself (Kesubos 73a Rashi v.s. Sahara. See also Rosh and Ritvo) nor may a man take an interest in the appearance of an eishes ish, as she is unavailable to everyone but her husband.
For this reason the hair of a girl may be seen, whilst the hair of a married woman, which is naturally a major source of attraction to her, must be covered and hidden from the eye of the public. Accordingly, for a married woman to wear a head covering that easily passes as her own hair, defeats the very function of this mitzvah, since a man seeing her can think that he is seeing her own hair and be attracted by it, especially when he does not know who she is and whether she is married or not.


So tired of women being told to center their entire lives over whether a man will be attracted and "sin" or not. I could care less if someone "sins" whatever that means. Not my problem. Not going to live my life to protect someone guy who feels the need to "sin" after seeing long pretty hair.
Back to top
Page 3 of 15   Previous  1  2  3  4 13  14  15  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic       Forum -> Fashion and Beauty -> Sheitels & Tichels

Related Topics Replies Last Post
How do you like lace front wigs?
by amother
1 Yesterday at 11:01 am View last post
Japanese/permanent straightening natural hair under cover?
by amother
5 Fri, Apr 26 2024, 3:07 pm View last post
Natural route for Pandas
by amother
36 Mon, Apr 22 2024, 9:05 am View last post
Hair gel that doesn’t make hair look shiny or greasy
by amother
2 Sun, Apr 21 2024, 9:23 pm View last post
Curly hair gel
by amother
7 Sun, Apr 21 2024, 6:59 pm View last post