How to politely cancel on a kollel offer?

Smiling Wife

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 1:47 pm

Wait a sec, please remember anytime you have a dilemma between two situations that there is a 3 Rd solution you aren't thinking of.
I highly suggest you present your situation to the kollel and ask if they are willing to sponsor health insurance and an extra stipend for a few more months till baby is 4 months old or however long maternity leave is plus more.. I am trying to tell you to please think " under what terms can we join this kollel" and then present that to the kollel " we would love to come, a few things happened however...we are in XYZ situation and my pregnancy , this and that etc etc and as much as we would like to join the kollel we will need A,B AND C needs for the upcoming year. Unfortunately we can't afford that right now, however if the kollel is able to sponsor it we will be thrilled to book our tickets"

Iymnok

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 1:49 pm

Smiling Wife wrote:

I agree.
What do you actually want?
You seem to be convinced by your excuses.

amother

Dodgerblue

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 1:58 pm

amother wrote:

Id totally tell them im pregnant but I am superstitious Sad

I am 4 months now.
We told them now that for personal reasons we cannot come at this point. I may explain it later but I hope they keep the reason private.

So you already cancelled? What did they say. I think at the very least you owed them an explanation after backing out on them twice. You are out of the first trimester and as you say it will be obvious soon to those who see you.

amother

Linen

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 2:09 pm

I admit to total ignorance of the kollel system but I didn’t think most kollelim have a problem finding yungerleit. I rather thought the shoe was on the other foot, that yungerleit have to scramble to find a kollel that offers enough of a stipend to make it worthwhile, or possible, to live there. IOW, surely that kollel has other applicants ready, willing and able to go there? It’s not as if your dh accepted a job as their rav and now they will have to start the search all over again, is it?

Kiwi13

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 2:33 pm

I agree with the posters who said that if you would still condider moving there under the right conditions then you should have an honest conversation with the kollel about ways to make it work.

But, I definitely think that the needs of your own family must come first. It might not be ideal how all the timing is planning out, and it might be a disappointment for them if you back out, but I believe you have a responsibility first and foremost to your own family. Definitely be upfront and sincere with the kollel, be professional, and express hakaras hatov. But don’t jeopardize your family’s wellbeing for this opportunity. They can and will find another candidate if you back out. They will take care of themselves. You need to take care of yourself and your family.

SixOfWands

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 5:12 pm

amother wrote:

Not my world, but that's what I thought.

Except OP said that they made an announcement that her husband would be coming. I doubt that most yeshivas make announcements that Joe Schmoe is coming. No one would care. So I wonder if her DH isn't Joe Schmoe, but Joe Somebody Who is Well Known, or at least with Yichus.

amother

Blush

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 5:50 pm

OP: Well, we are Joe Shmoe. Its a place for baalei teshuva and we are, too. They rely on funding themselves.
So it is part of their kiruv and legitimation work to present new yungerleit to their sponsors and community.
Actually, it took us by surprise that they announced us in a newsletter. We never asked for that.

I dont think it is hard for them to find other people who are interested. It is a wonderful program and we are very sorry it does not work at this point. We would have moved if the pregnancy didnt demand more financial security.
Their funds are very limited, too. They cannot pay health insurance for us at all. If there was housing provided, the stipend would be great and sufficient. As it is not and rent there is so high it would completely consume the stipend, the wisest decision at this point is really to do what is best for my family.
We both have health insurance through our jobs, we both work fulltime and I am entitled to maternity leave money for 12 months if we stay here. We would lose all that and have to pay rent, private insurance and daily living from the single stipend. Which is not possible at all.

Moving at this point, even though my husband would have loved to get back into fulltime learning, is not possible. We are very sad about that but family now takes priority over learning.

We did not get an answer back yet but I will explain the circumstances more. Health reasons in the wider sense are a good way to phrase it. I am also right now suffering a lot from hyperemesis and low blood pressure - to the one who said its no big deal, I am already 4 months!

Rachel Shira

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:06 pm

I agree with whichever poster upthread said she's surprised by these answers and you should do what's best for your family. It seems obvious to me that there are real reasons not to go right now. Of course you need to deal with it respectfully and considerately, but I don't necessarily think you owe the kollel anything. It was nice of them to hold the spot for you, but I'm sure they'll find someone to fill it.
B'shaa Tova!

amother

Blush

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:12 pm

Thank you for the understanding.

We waited 3 years for this baby. I dont want to jeopardize my health and my babys health by moving somewhere with no health insurance and barely any money to live on.

Originally I planned to look for a job to make living there possible for us as you need a double income. But as I am pregnant I cant even apply. And we talked to them. While they are certainly able to help out with moving expenses, we also have to be able to live there on a daily basis.

gande

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:02 pm

12 months maternity leave is a big deal! I agree that you should stay and tell them that although when you applied you were ready to come to the kollel, circumstances have changed and it is not possible for you to move at this point in time. Also, I don't think it was right for them to notify everyone that you are coming without your consent so I don't think you should feel bad that everyone knows; that's their problem.

amother

Azure

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 10:30 pm

Are you cray?

Girlfriend, you do what you want. Dream job for DH, health insurance, and paid maternity leave where you are now (I.e. you don't have to move while pregnant, which is no picnic) vs. inadequate finances, no maternity leave, loss of dream job because a year ago you planned for a situation that has now totally changed?

Come on. Stay. Just tell the kollel. Be honest.

It's really NOT a big deal.

amother

Brown

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 10:34 pm

We once accepted an offer to move to another country to join a kollel. Soon after accepting, we wanted to back out for various reasons but didn't have the guts to do so. We actually went through a major move with 3 kids because we lacked the assertiveness to do what was right for us as a family.

Of course, once we were there and in the system, we saw that on occasion, people would back out of the same commitment. It happens. I have seen in my job in the corporate world, people sign on to join our firm and then back out at the last minute. People who were mentioned by name in firm emails. It happens.

The good that came of this is that we have grown up and became assertive. At the very end of the day, you must do what is right for your family.

Say, "we feel terrible this happened, but our sudden pregnancy changed everything, and we have to cancel altogether. Please keep this discrete because we don't really feel comfortable talking about our pregnancy" (Yes, I do feel you have to mention the pregnancy). They will get over it, it has probably happened to them before, and they will find a suitable replacement.

If you don't look out for your family's best interest, who will?
Bshaah tovah.

notshanarishona

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 11:17 pm

I don't think there is any way to do it politely, u made them look bad and they lost out holding a spot for you.
To get rid of bad feelings, I would at the least be open about the reason so at least they won't be mad at you or give some kind of donation/or do something to help them out.
At the end of the day, u need to do what's good for you but a commitment is a commitment and you owe to them at the least to cover any loss they will have by u backing out.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Oct 23 2017, 12:16 am

amother wrote:

I'm being honest, just not revealing the details. Some things are personal and private for me.

You don't seem to come from a background where pregnancy isn't mentioned. You are in a situation where your pregnancy explains why you are backing out of a commitment. The kollel will be much more understanding if you are honest. The grown-up, mentschlisch thing to do is to explain that your pregnancy has made it difficult for you to take the job.

amother

Natural

Mon, Oct 23 2017, 1:44 am

amother wrote:

I cannot move because I would lose out on my maternity leave payment. And my husband just got his job extended for an unlimited time which is good money.

You would be losing out on your maternity leave payment if you had left the job before you got pregnant as well - you are just feeling it now because you are actually pregnant. In reality, nothing here has changed. Meaning - you were going to leave a good job, with great benefits, for your husband to go to Kollel - the timing of it now just bites more. You certainly can leave your job, its just not an opportune time to do so.

Your DH was going to *not work* to go to Kollel - so again nothing has changed, he's just really understanding what not working means.

What has changed is that before you got pregnant you thought it would be easier to get a job in new town, than you did before. The honest thing to do is tell the Kollel exactly what your concern is - that you won't be able to get a job - and without you working, Kollel isn't going to pan out.

amother

Blush

Mon, Oct 23 2017, 4:00 am

Yes. The main issue is that pregnancy makes it impossible for me to find a job (which I normally would have been able to find quickly I think) which in turn is crucial to support the kollel life as the stipend barely covers rent and nothing else.

Also, I am suffering of hyperemesis now and am still paranoid of miscarriage (I miscarried once before). Moving countries would be a huge burden.
Plus, if I had gotten a job in the new place before getting pregnant (which was the original plan), I would have been entitled to maternity leave and maternity pay which also would have supported us.
If I went now, pregnant, I would not get anything. And no, please dont tell us, why we didnt get a heter for birth control until the move was done - it was hard for me to even achieve this pregnancy now.

When we applied, I had a job here with just a little more money than the stipend. My husband did not have a job at all and then only a temporary one. We were childless. At this point, it would not have made a big difference where we were.
Now that everything suddenly has changed 180 degrees, we have to prioritize what is best for the family instead of jeopardizing everything. And yes, I am entitled to 12 months of paid maternity leave if I stay (I am in Europe), could extend to paid 36 months, actually, but with way less money.

I feel sorry and sad to back out of a commitment but I do not see any other way. They have multiple spots open, by the way, they did not hold a special slot for us.

amother

Blush

Mon, Oct 23 2017, 4:01 am

Actually, the assumptions made about us are ranging from hilarious (my husband is a big shot in the yeshiva world) to outright hurtful and mean - because of my non FFB background I am the type that openly speaks about an early pregnancy?! Sorry, but in my circles, noone announces a pregnancy outside of close family until its too obvious to hide, if at all. I have been frum since my teens.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Oct 23 2017, 4:18 am

amother wrote:

I really didn't mean to be hurtful. I'm very sorry.
In any case, the social practice of not discussing pregnancy shouldn't outweigh the courtesy you owe this kollel. Sometimes there's a reason to tell, and this seems like an obvious case.

amother

Peach

Mon, Oct 23 2017, 7:15 am

amother wrote:

That is uncommon for pot kollel. I know you don't share tho