S-xual harassment | Imamother

Optimystic

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 11:37 am

DrMom wrote:

No idea about the details of your friend's case, so I can't comment on that.

As for your new work-around: If premarital sx is a misdemeanor, won't both participants be found guilty? How does this in any way create the presumption that the woman did not consent? What does this solution achieve??

It sounds like you are trying to use rabbinic-style halachic workarounds that are meant to achieve some particular end and applying this type of legal tinkering to US law. I don't think that approach is going to fly.

Even if laws like this were passed, they would be immediately challenged in court and likely struck down.

Furthermore, the idea of making premarital sx a misdemeanor is so out of touch with the current "if it doesn't infringe on anybody else's rights, why do you care what goes on between consenting adults?" philosophy, that it is completely unrealistic to think that any legislative body would pass such a law. These people want to get re-elected.

Lastly, we'd have to be heavily surveilled for this law to be properly enforced. Very few US citizens are going to agree to live in such a police state, with government officials storming into bedrooms, parked cars, hotel rooms, and dorm rooms to hand out $1 tickets for premarital sx.

First of all, no one would be found guilty without proving consent, or in the case of rape, proving absence of consent. No law enforcement agency is going to pursue extramarital zx allegations for a $1 fine, and enforcing the law should never come at the expense of our privacy. The only time this would come into play is when a rapist tries to escape accountability on the presumption his victim consented. This would grant both sides due process. Furthermore, laws can affect the prevailing culture's view of what is okay.

I am sure you are right my solution won't be attempted because of the prevailing culture's attitude towards zx as recreation. Perhaps the only solution is to change the prevailing culture, and maybe MeToo is the best step in that direction we are likely to have.

imasoftov

Wed, Dec 20 2017, 3:04 am

Squishy wrote:

Why didn't you just Google it?

Here is a prime example of piling on. DT asked a woman for her phone number.

https://youtu.be/PvCWogPmiKg

Here is some feedback from that horrible act.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-313.....mber/

I didn't google it, because I wanted to know what you were referring to.

That video is an excerpt from a longer one where she also says Trump kissed her on the lips when first meeting her. Same TV show, same woman wearing the same dress, and if you keep watching you eventually get to the part about the phone number. It wasn't hard to find the full video, it was the "up next" video when I viewed the one you posted. Did you know that when you wrote the above or did someone else mislead you?

33055

Wed, Dec 20 2017, 4:24 am

imasoftov wrote:

It is possible that Trump misread her signals. She initiated contact with him outside his residence, and he was overly friendly. He also was a celebrity billionaire with his own groupies and thought she had an agenda. After all, she initiated contact without a business reason. It is also possible that she is getting paid money to exaggerate her story. I don't trust anything unless someone is not benefiting financially or otherwise.

Here is another accuser. Her attorney bid her story up to $750, 000. Unfortunately for her, she was begging and begging Trump with documented emails to be part his team.

She accused Trump. Withdraws her lawsuit. Begs and begs to work for him again. Now claims abuse and solicits money for her alleged story. That doesn't sound like a victim to me.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-.....52120

Mika and Joe talk about the unfair atmosphere where men won't even hire woman now. They mention an example of a reporter getting fired because of an anonymous accusation of something. He was not told what.

The potential for abuse in this atmosphere is great. If you want to get rid of an employee, then you can make up anonymous accusations. If you want a man's job, make up accusations.

Men can't even defend against this because there is no hearing. You can do everything 100% kosher like not be alone with a co-worker. It doesn't matter because you will not be given an opportunity to be heard. Bye bye.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new......html

imasoftov

Wed, Dec 20 2017, 5:26 am

Squishy wrote:

You are free to try to defend 45 however you like, but Rachel Crooks, let's use her name, says he kissed her so posting an except about her phone number is dishonest. That another woman might have lied says nothing about the truth or falsehood of what Ms. Crooks said. That talk show hosts have things to say that aren't about her does not address anything I said. All I am talking about is one woman whose misleadingly edited video you posted.

naturalmom5

Wed, Dec 20 2017, 12:05 pm

Squishy wrote:

Here's yet another false rape accusation.

Part of her punishment should be restitution. I hope the boys get compensated for everything they spent on their defense.

https://nypost.com/2017/12/18/.....deal/

=
Squishy, you are just like the media.
I read your post and got all riled up. Then I read the article, that they claimed it was consensual, which tells me they seem of been found innocent of rape, but they aren't exactly innocent little shepsilach..

33055

Wed, Dec 20 2017, 2:08 pm

imasoftov wrote:

You are free to try to defend 45 however you like, but Rachel Crooks, let's use her name, says he kissed her so posting an except about her phone number is dishonest. That another woman might have lied says nothing about the truth orb falsehood of what Ms. Crooks said. That talk show hosts have things to say that aren't about her does not address anything I said. All I am talking about is one woman whose misleadingly edited video you posted.

You are looking for a fight and not a discussion which is why I ignored you the first time.

Rachel Cooks approached Trump in front of his residence. She approached the celebrity and not the other way around. Let's look at it in the best possible light for her. She just wanted some gain from the biggest partner of her firm. She obviously left the desk she was sitting at and walked right up to him. He could not have kissed her if she remained at her desk.

Trump probably figured yet another woman is coming on to him. He flattered her asking for her number. I seriously doubt he was interested in her either for sport or a model for his agency. He was married to Marla Maples who is smart and glamorous.

I feel bad for Trump. He can't defend himself because there are a bunch of aggressive woman like you who aren't interested in the truth. If DT defended himself by saying she was never in his league and came on to him, then the army of crazys start with how he doesn't respect women.

33055

Wed, Dec 20 2017, 2:14 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

But they are not guilty of rape. Every other rape victim loses credibility every time these false accusations come to light.

Fox

Wed, Dec 20 2017, 2:35 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

I read your post and got all riled up. Then I read the article, that they claimed it was consensual, which tells me they seem of been found innocent of rape, but they aren't exactly innocent little shepsilach..

This logic leads nowhere good. If we really, truly only believe defendants charged with s-xual crimes if they are "innocent little shepsilach," then we have to only accept testimony from victims who are equally pure as the driven snow. That's what feminists in the 60s and 70s worked hard to change!

Being promiscuous or engaging in risky s-xual behavior may mean that you make stupid decisions, but it doesn't ipso facto make you a rapist/harasser. Nor does it mean that you can't be raped/harassed.

imasoftov

Thu, Dec 21 2017, 2:06 am

Squishy wrote:

I fail to see how any of the above responds to my criticism of the video having been edited to remove the kiss and only leave in the part about phone number.

BTW, I asked for examples of men suffering consequences for asking for phone numbers, that's only one.