Close friend lives in a filthy house and doesn't realize it

miami85

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 10:20 am

LittleDucky wrote:

Unless you were really close I would be horrendously insulted. The baby is already crawling. Belated baby gift would seem random and “because you think I am a slob”. Someone once gave me a gift of cleaning help but that was immediately after my baby- I went into labor after cooking and didn’t have time to clean up after that and I left for the hospital when it was a huge mess- it was my first and didn’t realize how off a due date could be! They realized that would be the case so they had the place vacuumed and scrubbed for when I came back.
So then it was appreciated. But now she feels things are back to normal, it’s not a week after the baby was born. The baby should be about 5-6 months old minimum!

If you wanted to do it gently, but I still say keep away, tell her “you saw this Groupon and were thinking of using it... do you want me to send the link as it’s a good deal and I know I can use the help to relax -what about you?”
But if she gets it you should too.

I was "insulted" when someone offered it to me at first also, but once I vented to someone about it she explained to me that "its part of having kids" and realizing that almost everyone has cleaning help to stay sane. I was "insulted" recently when I was hosting something at my house and even hired a cleaning agency to get ready, and someone else knowing about this event ALSO sponsored a cleaning person--so I had 2 people here on the same day--I was ALSO "insulted" but I realized that I NEEDED IT. I'm a busy mommy, my kids don't help, I was in my 9th month at the time, just picking up clothing from the floor was a chore--forget washing it, I can't wash it if I can't pick it up, then there's folding it and putting it away. My house is still "recovering" from me being pregnant as well.

Yes, we get used to the mess that we live in. I had a situation where I thought my apartment was clean and then someone who is a known neat-freak came to my apartment and told me that she "couldn't stand it" b/c of the "clutter." After I was married, I would go to my mother's house which she finally got regular cleaning help, and I was impressed at how clean it was, but my husband thought it was STILL messy. She may say that "she doesn't need it" but she probably KNOWS that she does.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 10:25 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

I don’t know if or what op can do about the situation. But I’m shocked about how many of you think this is even semi normal to live like this. It literally sounds like living in a dirty pig sty. And don’t bother disinviting me to your house. I wouldn’t come anyway.

I agree.

I happen to have a friend who is similar to the OP's. She has a very large family very closely spaced, and the house is not sanitary. My DD used to like to play with her DD, who is an absolute sweetheart, but she cannot stand going to their house - it smells. Anytime I've gone there, I come home feeling bad - the baby is in dirty clothes. She is totally a loving mother, but cleanliness does not exist there.

I realized a while ago that this world is Hashem's, and there are situations I can't fix or even help. I'm not in a position right now to start an organization to help families that need it, and I can't take this on by myself. Right now I can think of 3 families off the bat that I know, that are dysfunctional.

I do what I can here and there as does my DH (he currently gives lots of attention, prizes, and spends some time learning with a very learning-disabled boy from a very dysfunctional home who is not in any educational framework whatsoever, no school, sits around all day - another situation I can't help and did not create).

The rest we leave to Hashem.

amother

Peach

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 10:29 am

amother wrote:

Stay far away from my house! No kids at home, but DH is like a giant toddler.

I can scrub and mop and wipe things down, and within 12 hours he'll have the place looking like a frat house. Coffee spilled all over the floor, bread crumbs on the counter, milk left out, dirt ground into the floor, papers piled on every available surface.

I don't know why I bother cleaning at all. I never have friends over, because I am far too embarrassed.

DH is too cheap to pay for cleaning help, even though we can easily afford it. I do the minimum, because I just give up. Confused

Yikes! Did I write this post? The only difference is, my husband is not cheap. We don’t want a cleaning lady in the house because we’ve had bad experiences with them stealing jewelry and other things. Big issue because I really would like to have a cleaning lady

mommyla

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 10:36 am

amother wrote:

Ha this could be me. My floor hasnt been mopped in literally a few months and yes I have a crawling baby. The toilet doesn't get cleaned often. I do wipe down kitchen but inside oven has like never been cleaned since I got it new, and fridge is dirty now.

Dh actually begs me to get a cleaning lady. I'm so unreasonable right?

But I work, take care of baby when I get home, am dealing with a medical issue that involves low energy, lots of fatigue and a lot of time involved in special food prep. I can barely straighten up the house each day. I can't deal with finding a lady, having her quit on me ten times til she's finally done, staying around while she's here, repeating it all the next week. He's willing to pay! But not to arrange and that's a huge headache for me. And ofc during the times that I have a trusted lady that can come, I'm at work, he's home but refuses to stay home during those hours so she can come. Sorry honey, clean it yourself if you want it done, it's literally enough that I put supper on the table most days.

Can you get in a cleaning service every other week or even once a month? A professional team should have a checklist and you won't have to sit around and dictate. Just to keep the grime from building up... it may be more expensive but it sounds like a good idea for you.

OP, I get it, my house is not sparkling all the time but your friend's house sounds borderline neglected. I don't think it's healthy to live in an environment like that. Don't know what I'd do about it, though, I don't think there's anything you can do except extolling the virtues of your own cleaning lady ("I love not having to clean the toilet/dust the shelves/wash the dishes all the time!"). I have one sibling whose house is a flying wreck and they do have cleaning help regularly - I won't stay at their house because it really grosses me out. I feel bad for the one neat-freak child that they have.

mommy3b2c

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 10:48 am

amother wrote:

My house doesn't always look like this but it definitely does sometimes. And I consider myself clean. My microwave hasn't been cleaned in a month but seriously how would a guest know? It doesn't smell. I have a bunch of little boys using one bathroom so although I am constantly washing down the bathroom its hard to keep the pee away! I dust surfaces but I rarely do the ceilings nope dust up there is not worth my time. Laundry gets done and goes in drawers and and the kitchen gets wiped down and dishes generally get washed every night but if you would visit right after supper it looks like a tornado hit! and by wiped down I mean the tables chairs and counters get sprayed and wiped the floor swept and if need washed but cabinets remain smudged. Perfectly fine in my opinion. And no we don't have cleaning help and don't plan on getting any anytime soon. BH I am healthy, energetic, capable and relaxed enough to be fine with it as is.

And btw Mommy3b2c you might want to rephrase your post to a kinder tone. I'm glad you can be a SAHM and have lots of cleaning help but not everyone can and should not have to feel bad that their home doesn't look like they live that lifestyle.

You’re probably right. I should change my tone. But nope, Im not always a sahm (now I’m actually running a business) and I don’t always have cleaning help. And my house never came close to looking like what’s being described here. And my mom went for many years without a drop of cleaning help and she always worked a ton, and her house was ten times more spotless then mine. And mine can get plenty messy. Even when my cleaning lady comes, it’s a huge mess an hour later. It’s called having kids. And often there’s some LEGO on the floor and some dishes in the sink but there’s no piles of garbage everywhere or poop on toilet seats or hair and dust on every surface. That’s just nauseating.

amother

Teal

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 10:52 am

Thank you for all the input, some of it was more helpful than others. Wink

There's a difference between messy and dirty and she crossed it many years ago. Whether I explained it properly or not, sorry. I'm in her home a lot because I often help with her kids, babysit them, feed them etc . For free, because contrary to what a few defensive people have indicated, I am actually a good friend to her.

I was thinking about one of those Fly Lady sites (google it - was popular a decade ago) and maybe I can suggest we do a "cleaning challenge" together. Otherwise, I guess I can't really say, "Hey, the poop stains that are permanently in your toilet really need to be cleaned."

FranticFrummie

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 11:07 am

amother wrote:

"Hey, the poop stains that are permanently in your toilet really need to be cleaned."

So, in my city we have desalinated water, which is really heavy in calcium and lime deposits. How do you get the toilet clean? I've tried every chemical on the market, and every scrubber I can find. I scrub the toilet with every flush, and it STILL looks gross!

They do not sell CLR cleaner in Israel, and you can't bring it in because it's a liquid. Mad

miami85

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 11:15 am

amother wrote:

Thank you for all the input, some of it was more helpful than others. Wink

just a thought, I know you probably live in the same neighborhood, but could it be that they are hard water stains? They are often brown and don't go away on their own. B/c if her toilets have proper water levels, or its diarrhea, should be "cleaned" from flushing. I mean, I myself don't have a ton of time, but when I'm in the bathroom and I notice something "dirty" I take the toilet cleaner and the brush and in 30 secs, its clean and wipe down with a clorox wipe.

In terms of the microwave, there's this device called the "Angry mama" which is supposed to help clean the microwave. Might be a "gag-type" gift, but that's what friends are for. Finding ways of helping when no one else will say anything.

southernbubby

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 11:27 am

I always found housekeeping to be a real challenge when the kids were little.

One thing that I would ask though, is are there activities that the friend could give up in order to have more time to clean and would hiring a one time service and then having her watch how they clean be of any benefit to her?

Sometimes 2 very common things happen:

1)People can't manage their time so they over commit themselves in the community or get involved in non-productive activities such as spending too much time online or shopping.

2)People simply don't know the mechanics of cleaning.

It is beneficial to clean up because kids often remember the mess as the grow up as has been confirmed in the other threads and usually they are not appreciative of the dirt and disorder, even though it is supposed to mean the the attitude of the home is relaxed and accepting rather than white glove critical. Older kids find it embarrassing and if the family wants to invite anyone in for a shiur or other event, then it is very stressful to pull it together. It's great to find a happy medium.

I don't think that we need to be judgmental of those who are not great housekeepers but if the friend is offering to help in a kind and non-judgmental way, then I would think that it would be appreciated and well received. You need to figure out, however, what the issue actually is, #1, #2, both, or neither.

dancingqueen

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 11:35 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Agree, as usual. I would not want to be a guest there either.

Maybe you can mention that you know of a cleaning lady with extra hours.

Aylat

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

Agreed that mommy3b2c could have sounded kinder, but for once I actually agree with her. I can’t think of anyone I know whose house is like that.

Mine does!
ETA I also thought I was OP's friend, but I don't have a crawling baby... When we have guests with crawling babies then we make sure to sweep (and wash) the floors.

ETA2 Finished reading the thread. OP, sorry if people are misinterpreting what you are saying. It's hard to know what is meant without actually seeing the house (and seeing it over time as well, because sometimes a disastrous day can happen to anyone). So when you said there is dust and hair round the bathroom sink - I was thinking, well, that's what my kids' sink looks like most of the week - I don't manage to do those quick daily swipes that would keep it decent. Thank you lovely long haired daughter. And there's definitely food splashes and grease marks on the kitchen cabinets - alas, every so often they glare at me and I think I should really get round to scrubbing them off. But there's not piles of rotting rubbish lying around, and the toilets get cleaned weekly. And baruch Hashem, no one gets ill from the clutter, the crumbs and the unwashed dishes. If I was your friend, I think I'd want you to ignore the mess and appreciate the things that are good about me. But it is really nice of you to care and wonder if there's more you should be doing to help.

Last edited by Aylat on Wed, Dec 27 2017, 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

questioner

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 12:40 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Citric acid. Pour in the toilet, leave overnight and scrub a little in the morning. Should clean it up.

amother

cornflower

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 12:42 pm

I went to a relatives house once when she had just left for the week on vacation and each sink was full of dishes with food still on them. The counters and fridge were full of food that was either going bad or will go bad if out for a week. That was except for the clutter all over the place and the mess. I really wanted to stay there for a while and just clean it but was worried she might get hurt.
Instead next time we met at a simcha I started a discussion that my house can use a reorganizing and how about we start a group where everyone posts before and after pictures of a predetermined space in the house that we will declutter that week. It helped me get my house in order and from the pictures it seems like hers was doing better as well.
I actually want to revive it now.....

amother

Teal

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 1:24 pm

amother wrote:

Op I saw more "likes" on the anti op posts than ever! I believe you may have made some enemy's Wink

I really hope YOUR home is a happy one. Or that you have enough energy to keep up your standards.

Crazy number of likes, right? But I get it, mentioning standards of clean will make anyone sensitive to the issue speak up. I don't take it personally. We all have topics that are triggers, that make us get defensive online.

But hey, at least I still hang out in her home weekly, unlike the posters who wouldn't want to be in her house. That's a bit much.

thunderstorm

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 1:31 pm

amother wrote:

OP, my mother is a terrible housekeeper but way worse than anything you described. Her neighbor who was a good friend always struggled getting her toddlers and babies into bed and she would get overwhelmed. They had an arrangement where my mother would go over or send me over to put the woman's kids to bed while the woman went to my mother next door and helped her organize and clean. Maybe find something your friend is really good at and have her assist you with that. You can then assist her with cleaning . Not a full heavy duty clean but assisting her with that . It may motivate her as well if. She had someone to join her in the effort.