should I bring my baby?

Clarissa

Sat, Nov 10 2007, 10:06 pm

amother wrote:

since when does nursing a baby mean you are housebound???? OR even that you are permanently attached to your baby? For everyone who cant seem to think beyond their own selfishness, try imaging for a second the pain an women suffereing form intfertility faces. Why would you want to cause her any more pain by bringing your baby to a place where she thinks she will have a distraction from the constant raw agonizing suffering of wanting a child and that being completely out of her control.

it isnt a matter of fairness. or that its your 'right' to bring a baby there. Its a matter of kindness, and sensitivity.

You are so worried about your baby's wellbeing, maybe being a better person will help you raise better children. Or maybe the zchus of not causing this woman any more pain will be a zchus for your children to be better

Mama Bear

Sat, Nov 10 2007, 11:34 pm

why is everyone posting as amother. Be bold and speak your mind like I did! Why is everone so scared on this thread.

To the secondary IF amother who keeps taking the side of the nursing mother - unless you went through primary infrtility, then I'm sorry, you really don't have a clue, your secondry infertlity does not help this situation in the least.

chavamom

Sat, Nov 10 2007, 11:53 pm

Clarissa wrote:

I don't understand the "need to nurse" thing. My baby didn't comfortably drink from a bottle until he was over a year old, but I did, at times, leave a bottle here for him to be fed. Believe me, when he was hungry, he took it. And if he wouldn't take it, my husband would walk the floor with him, until I got home. We're talking an hour and a half or two hours here. She can nurse, leave, enjoy the shiur, and come home.

Gee, lucky for you your little scheme worked. B/c it doesn't for many. There are plenty of babies out there that will scream and scream when a bottle is right in front of them.

I'm just amazed that a shiur that is advertised as "nursing babies welcome" is generating this much controversy. It's not like it's a secret foisted on childless women or those who prefer "adults only". You don't like nursing babies at your shiur? FIND ANOTHER ONE.

Tamiri

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 12:06 am

Maybe this is a case of "cans" and can'ts"? Maybe some women are able to leave their babies and others simply can't?
I know that I could not leave my babies; after suffering the guilt of leaving my first at 5.5 months to go back to work, I went as far as to never work again since #2, so that I would not experience the guilt! I am by no means "attached at the hip" to my children, 2 of whom are quite grown by now (one is post army and dorming), the youngest of whom is nearly 3. They are, by now, independant human beings.
I would NEVER leave them while they were exclusively nursing, which meant that for 6 months, no more than an hour (if that) would go by without me being with them. I don't find that strange - I find it stranger when women DO leave their babies! So, if there was a place where babies were not welcome, I would not go. This shiur is an opportunity for such nursing moms to be out and about with adults, something they likely crave.
I don't think that someone having/not having a baby has ANY bearing on a nursing mother showing up with her baby: that is life. It's insane to compare a mother nursing in the presence of a childless woman to "bad behavior". Come on, the whole world has to suffer along with this woman? Where is your sense, ladies? The woman without children has far more choice as to times and places she can go for a shiur. It's easy for her to get up in the am and go anywhere, walking or by car or by bus. It's easy for her to go at night because there are no demands put upon her.
I think some of the posters are taking this a bit too far in "protecting" a woman without children. It happens, but life for her and everyone else MUST go on.
I think that some of the nastier amothers who post (anonymously, of course) need to apologize. We are discussing the case of a nursing MOTHER for goodness sakes: is this the way you would speak to your own mother? A mother is a holy thing!!!!! Treat her with respect, even if she isn't yours.

amother

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 1:33 am

Mama Bear wrote:

you know what, its got nothing to do with experience in IF or not.
I didn't cause your IF, neither did the nursing mother.

there is a boy in my son's class who is orphaned of his mother. No I don't know what its like thank G-d but regardless, I'm not going to stop picking up my son from school and doing mommy and son things because its going to upset him. I'm devastated for him, but surely my role as mother doesn't end because he lost his.

this shiur of MDM's is intended to be a friendly place for mother's with babies. that doesn't change because a woman with IF attends it.
She is the one who needs to find a shiur that is NOT baby friendly if its an issue for her. She can't change the dynamics of the shiur to suit her.

If babies were not welcome in the shiur, then I would suggest MDM to find another arrangement, but since they are, what right does anyone have to suggest they change the set up.
there are other shiurim out there that are not baby friendly for her to go to.
probably more then there are baby friendly ones.

shalhevet

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 3:04 am

To the posters who said that it is no big deal to leave a nursing baby for a couple of hours, because anyway you can feed just before you leave:
This often means hours of planning. Your baby nursed at 6 o'clock and fell asleep, and you need to leave at 8. So do you wake your baby up at 7.30 to nurse again, when they might have slept till 10.30 or do you leave them and have them wake up 10 minutes after you left the house?

I know, because I worked and nursed, and this often meant extra hours of baby care/ nursing/ pumping, and certainly made me think several times before leaving the house without the baby any time it was remotely optional.

mimsy7420

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 8:42 am

Tamiri wrote:

Clarissa

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 10:11 am

People used to bring their young children to morning monitoring at my fertility clinic, and you could just see the pain on some peoples' faces. One time, the only time, I had to bring my older kid (and this was after being in treatment for years and always figuring out a way to not bring him), I kept him quietly hidden in the hallway with my husband. The nurse said, "hey, why is he out there? It wouldn't bother anybody, I promise it's absolutely fine." But I knew differently. I knew that the woman across from me in the waiting room might have suffered a miscarriage that week, another woman may have been told it was hopeless for them to try, etc. I know this isn't the same situation as a baby-friendly shiur, but my point is that, even when we're told babies are welcome, we sometimes go the extra mile just to be extra-protective of someone's feelings.

Maybe it's time for OP to weigh in and say what she's thinking? After all, there have been many posts on both sides of the argument.

Seraph

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 10:13 am

Ok, so I left my baby with my husband the past 2 shiurim. Not happening again.
I left him with a bottle of pumped milk. The next 24 hours uriel would not nurse normally- the first time he barely nursed to the point that I was exploding, and the second time it was only slightly better. If taking the bottle from his abba during that period of time wrecked his nursing both times I tried and for that long after, I'm not gonna leave my baby behind.
Not to mention that my husband works a long day, and to expect him to watch the baby so I can go out baby free isn't fair when I'm NOT working a full day.
And I think I mentioned uriel is completely unscheduled. Sometimes he wants to nurse 15 minutes after his last feeding.
Oh- and I HATE HATE HATE HATE pumping. It HURTS!!! I do it when I have no other choice. but if I have a choice to bring the baby, I will...

Tamiri

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 10:23 am

Reading the past few posts reminded me: When I was exploding pregnant 3 years ago, I had to have an ultra sound. There were quite a few flat stomached women in the waiting room with me. I figured they were at the beginning of their pregnancies. One asked me something along the lines of "my success story" and I said I was just there for an ultra sound. I didn't know what she was talking about. The woman said she was there for "zikkim" something like that and the discussion was ended. I later learned that the zikkim they are looking for have to do with infertility. So here I was, the proud mother of 4 healthy kids, plus one extra on the way in a room FULL of ladies who had nothing.
So, should they have not done my ultra sound? Pushed off everyone else? What good would it have done had I know this was a room full of women who wanted what I had? Made me feel terrible? No good would have come of making a 9 months pg woman feel bad. Same as no good comes of making a nursing mother feel bad.
As a wise person once said: "Life happens". You can't put the world on hold.

BeershevaBubby

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 10:33 am

At the Macabbi 'women's clinic' on Agrippas, where they do gyno ultrasounds, high risk pregnancy and IF treatments they do in fact try to make sure the women who are there for IF have their tests and ultrasounds at different times than the pregnant women for just those reasons.

Yes, emergencies do come up, but those can't be helped.

Tamiri wrote:

Mama Bear

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 10:45 am

Look Breslov and MDM; I told you that I changed my thinking around, after I realzied that this was a specifically baby friendly shiur and it was the childless woman's responsibility to decide if she feels comfortable staying or not. I am not telling you to leave your baby home.

I'm just trying to shake up the attitudes of the posters here a little; to realize that it's not as simple as "too bad that you dont have kids, the world can't stop." It's a lot, lot deeper than that.

Clarissa

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 10:50 am

You're right MB, attitudes need to be shaken up around here. It's not as if OP and Breslov aren't within their rights bringing their baby -- there are arguments on both sides that make sense. I just wish some of the responses didn't sound so insensitive. If I supported a friend's decision to bring her baby to this shiur, I would find a way to tell her that didn't sound like some of the posters here -- the tone and comments were disappointing.