Hishtadlus question

amother

Tan

Sat, Sep 29 2018, 9:38 pm

We all know that hashem runs the world in a way that he makes it necessary for us to do hishtadlus in order to succeed. What happens in a scenario where we do our hishtadlus but success also involves someone else doing their hishtadlus and that person slacks off? For example if someone needs a serious medical procedure. They call refuah, do research, and select the most capable and qualified doctor. Unfortunately the day of the procedure the doctor is really not feeling well and knows he should stay home. Nevertheless, he goes to work and attempts to perform the procedure while sick. Clearly this doctor is not doing the necessary hishtadlus to succeed, yet the patient who chose this doctor did every thing right. How does hashem judge this situation?

amother

Ecru

Sat, Sep 29 2018, 9:50 pm

amother wrote:

Hishtadlus is not a magic formula that will make you get what you want. Hishtadlus is a) like turning on a faucet so that the bracha/yeshua that Hashem planned can become reality, and b) a necessary disguise so that there remains the appearance of "teva" in this world. Once you did your part, Hashem controls the rest. If Hashem decided that the procedure should not be successful, then it will not be successful.

Your hishtadlus is to do whatever is in your control, and leave the rest up to Hashem. If the other person did not do their hishtadlus, then Hashem decreed it so. This does not mean that the other person will not be held accountable for their lack of hishtadlus -- just that Hashem decided that they should be the shaliach for the failed procedure.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by how Hashem "judges" this situation. The person does his hishtadlus; if the procedure is meant to succeed, he has done everything to ensure that it will; and if it is not meant to succeed, then it will not.

Cheiny

Sat, Sep 29 2018, 11:10 pm

amother wrote:

I thought you’re getting too distracted by the details. Our obligation is to make necessary hishtadlut, and then we leave the results to Hashem. All the outside stuff, who does what, etc., has no bearing on the ultimate outcome, only Hashem does. And we are not privy to His ways, so there’s no way to try to understand why things happen one way or another.

chicco

Sat, Sep 29 2018, 11:27 pm

Hishtadlus means doing what we need to do to be able to accept the bracha Hashem is sending our way. No person can get in our way of that. If we have made ourselves into the proper klei we will be able to receive what we need from Hashem. Whatever is coming our way- good or bad, may come to us through a shaliach, but it is ultimately from Hashem. They can't change the plan. Hashem will judge those who accept being the shaliach for bad, because even though the bad will happen if that is what Hashem wants, the shaliach doesn't need to volunteer for the job. Hashem can have it happen another way. Hope this helps...

FranticFrummie

Sun, Sep 30 2018, 6:11 am

This is the oldest question in the book.

Free will and predestination, how do they work together? Can you do anything that will change the outcome? Should you? If it's going to be a certain outcome no matter what, why even try?

Nobody knows all the answers for sure. Moshe Rabbeinu wanted to know, and Hashem told him "Hide yourself in this rock, and when I pass by you can see my back." We know that Hashem does not literally have a body, and a back, but from this we derive that even when He reveals himself, He does it in a hidden way.

dankbar

Sun, Sep 30 2018, 6:22 am

I once heard a nice explanation with a parable, between bechira & destiny. If you let your kid choose between two colors of lollipops & you know beforehand that she will pick the red one....does that mean that she didnt have a choice.....no....same thing you get to choose even if your reality is predestined. There is also things that can change a persons mazal or gzar din. By choosing to do good, you are choosing your destiny.