Children davening in school

urban gypsy

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 10:27 am

I'm having trouble motivating my kids to daven in school. My daughter is in grade 3 and she recently told me that she doesn't participate in davening. Her teaching assistant does not force them to daven, as long as they have a siddur on their desk and sit and listen quietly without disturbing the class. But she says that when other teachers supervise, she does get yelled at for not davening and that she hates it and does not want to participate. I just got an email from my son's Rebbe (he is in grade 2) that he fools around in class and disturbs others during davening. How can I help my kids be calm and participate during davening like the rest of the class???

precious

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 11:15 am

I agree with the posters mentioning the connection to davening at home.
As far as specifically targeting davening in school, you can discuss and prepare a chart with each child, if teacher is agreeable, and teacher can mark off each day according to whatever system you decide, and you can reward based on that.

SixOfWands

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 11:24 am

Snow White wrote:

I would love to say just leave them alone. Forcing them to daven will only cause a bigger hatred toward davening. But I don’t think that’s answer ur looking for.

This.

But also ask them what they don't like about davening.

Maybe they're struggling with the words, and you can help them.

Maybe they don't connect to the formulaic language, and you can help them to understand what they're saying.

Or it could be something else. But it can only help to ask.

amother

Cobalt

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 11:27 am

As long as there's no disruption, leave it alone. You cannot force someone to daven. Maybe make more of an effort to let them see you davening at home and you can talk about davening around them (not as a lecture, just let it come up in conversation).

When I was in 10th grade, I was going through some very difficult things and did not daven for most of that year. I would attend davening (I went to a coed school, so we had a minyan), but I would just sit there and not daven. I never did anything disrespectful- didn't talk to friends, didn't sleep, or do homework, I just didn't daven. One morning, a teacher decided to make an issue of it and I ended up getting sent to the principal's office. BH, the principal took my side. He was aware of some of the things I was going through (my father was very ill) and said he understood if I wasn't too thrilled with Hashem right now, and if I just can't daven at this time, that's OK. He gave me a sincere bracha that things should improve and that Hashem is always there, ready to listen whenever I decide I'm ready to talk again. BH, that stayed with me more than the teacher who yelled at me. But yeah, davening is tricky and you don't want to complicate things here.

PinkFridge

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 11:31 am

amother wrote:

Your experience is very important. But go back a few years, when you were just learning how to daven, when life was calm and not difficult and you were just learning a valuable life skill. This scenario is important.

And props to your principal. I hope he's still in chinuch. (The teacher...I don't need to know but I hope that the teacher would handle things differently now if still in chinuch and we can leave it at that.)

PinkFridge

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 11:33 am

SixOfWands wrote:

I think at this age, yeah, language is an issue but they should be taught the value of saying the words that our greatest sages organized for us a great gift, with the theme of each tefilla all the kavana they need to have. Davening is a life skill, and they need to learn the mechanics.

The bolded is basic yet profound, and the necessary first step.

amother

Beige

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 12:35 pm

Hotpink, kids emulate what they see in the house. I think that instilling a warmth & love for daveninf has to come from the parents more than from the teachers. You can't expect them to want to daven ar home when they never davening at home. A teacher can talk about Davening and tell stories but I think at the end of the game kids will do what's done at home.

melbee

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 1:17 pm

One of my children had a hard time davening in class. Through talking openly with him about it, he was finally able to tell us he couldn't concentrate on his davening when everyone around him is also davening out loud. It made him lose his place and he would get frustrated. His teacher offered to let him daven by himself in a resource room and he loved that solution. B"H this year he is able to join his class during davening and has no complaints.

I think pushing it or trying to discipline to "make" them daven won't work and will probably backfire. I would try having a talk with each child one-on-one and see if there is a reason they are having a hard time.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 1:25 pm

DD had davening ruined for her by several teachers.

In the early grades, the morah encouraged the kids to YELL out their davening to show their enthusiasm. DD is very sensory, and especially about her hearing. It was so painful for her, she would plug her ears, and she got yelled at for that.

Later on, she was in a class with girls who goofed off and distracted her, even when she wanted to try to daven.

By high school, she decided that davening was boring and pointless. If she didn't participate, she got yelled at.

Today, she's not religious at all. Crying

Chayalle

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 1:27 pm

I think it's a good idea to incorporate all of the ideas mentioned in this thread. On non-school days, incorporate davening at home into your own and your kids' schedules. (I give my kids a small treat when they daven on non-school days - like a taffy...) Find out what the difficulty is for your child in davening, and if something needs to be addressed. It does not have to be all or nothing. Maybe your child can agree to participate in some of the tefillos, and sit quietly by the others if it's too much for him/her to participate in all of the school-assigned tefillos.

keym

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 1:30 pm

These are 7&8 year olds. Being pushed to daven out loud, with their finger on the place for a 30 min stretch. (At least in my experience).
Even if you teach them what they are saying and all, its still stretching their ability.
My policy was that I arranged with the teacher to enforce basic tefillos- birchos hashachar, shma, shmoneh esrei saying out loud following along. And even that we worked slowly one tefilla at a time. The rest of the time they need to be quiet and not destructive. Space out or whatever.

Even now as my kids got older, on days off brachos, shma, shmoneh esrei is required like tooth brushing and bed making. Additional tefillos are extra and may get rewards.
As they get closer to bar/bar mitzva and more cognizant, they add more on their own.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 1:37 pm

One of the problems I'm seeing, is teachers being way too rigid, and insisting that the kids do more than they are capable of. Some teachers demand that everybody do the exact same thing, the exact same way, all the time. The kids who can't are the ones who get yelled at in front of the whole class.

amother

Navy

Wed, Oct 24 2018, 3:00 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I completely agree with this! I feel like we are really missing the boat with tefillah in our children's schools. In my daughter's beis yaakov they just sit there and monotonously chant the words and if there is a tune its usually pretty lame. The length of time is waaaay too long and they say a ton of tefilos just craming it it all in. This is not what davening is meant to be. The words are beautiful when said slowly and with a beautiful tune. Better go daven less with your whole heart then say the whole siddur like a mechanical robot. When she has a day off from school and its not shabbos we daven together with my davening playlist. It's just of collection of beautiful tunes to most of the tefilos of shachris. Hopefully she's getting the message that tefillah could be "more".