Child confused as to his identity

amother

Aqua

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 3:13 pm

My grandson is an immature 8 years old. His parents are divorced and he sees very little of his father. His brother lords it over him and is a bit of a bully to him. He is disabled but he goes to regular school. He is a happy child.
My daughter (his mother) has noticed that he loves putting her clothes and shoes on and walking around in them.She doesn't use make up so that is not an issue. She was recently made aware by his son's teacher that he said that he wants to be a girl.
This came as a shock and has upset me. What could be the reason for this and what do you suggest as a course of action? Which expert covers this and who will be advise my daughter and possibly my grandson?

Miri7

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 3:17 pm

Seek out a psychiatrist with expertise in gender disphoria in kids. This could be a phase, trying to emulate his mom, or could be a real thing. Your daughter needs good advice in sorting this through.

It’s important to get good advice from licensed health care professionals- children and people with gender disphoria are at real risk for depression and suicide. Your daughter will want to do everything possible to mitigate that risk.

imasinger

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 6:57 pm

My 2 cents.

I wouldn't rush to pursue gender dysphoria experts. The current tendency is for the experts to pressure parents into all kinds of changes, some of which are irreversible.

And a special needs child doesn't march to the beat of the same drummer.

I'd suggest starting by talking to the child. If he's saying he wants to be a girl, find out why. Maybe it's a sensory issue, and he doesn't like boys' clothing, but prefers the freer feeling of a skirt. Maybe he's being teased, annoyed, or bullied by his brother and other boys, and he prefers the girls.

Then, seek counseling to address those issues. Look for a sensitive male therapist, who can model that masculinity and compassion go together. Look for activities where he can interact peacefully with other boys, under supervision. There are special needs sports and swimming groups that might be helpful; also, social skills groups. Get him away from his brother as much as possible, and work harder to teach the brother how to interact with his younger sibling.

If after a year or so of treatment, he still is telling his mother that he wants to be a girl, they can look further into gender dysphoria.

JMO.

dankbar

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 11:34 pm

I wouldnt be worried. If he is special needs & immature for his age he is acting like a younger kid role playing. It's fun to dress up in mommy hi heeled shoes for playing etc. They usually outgrow the role playing at a certain age. For reg kids it's supposed to be from ages 3_7. Appxmtly

amother

Indigo

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 12:02 am

I would also advise you to treat it as a game. And do not take him to "professionals" about it. I believe it is only a "thing" at the moment because people are making it a thing. If when he is 35 he still wants to do something about it then he can. But til then - tread carefully. I think a child would more easily forgive a loving parent who set boundaries on doing something about this until he was an adult much more easily than a parent who let him mess with gender identity in an irreversible way while he was still a child.

amother

Burgundy

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:11 am

My brother loved dressing up in my ballet outfit and dancing to my barbie workout dvd when he was little. He also loved to play with makeup. My mom banned us sisters from laughing at him (not v successfully)

Guess what, he grew up, into a real 'guy' guy. If I mentioned the above to his girlfriend he would probably actually murder me!!
Before the age of 10, call it cute & dont give him a complex or a label

Rappel

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 7:22 am

I knew a cute little boy who wanted to be a "mommy" when he grew up. Why? "Because mommies are so nice!"

He's a normal teenager now. I wouldn't worry too much.

Side note: I actually think it's a great gift that we don't immediately question gender in religious society. All people have male and female aspects to their persona, and it's healthy to explore that through play. Our boys can put on dresses, play with dolls, or do whatever they want without having to question their basic identity while doing it. It's very freeing.

amother

Crimson

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 7:23 am

My grandson loves to play with doll's. My daughter does not encourage this but doesn't ban him from playing with doll's. He has 3 brothers who are not allowed to laugh at him. He does lots of boy activities too. I think by not allowing this sort of girl play you are encouraging forbidden behavior. His playing with doll's has become less frequent. He does play more with girls then boys. I think just leave him be. I always make sure to tell me he is a wonderful boy regardless of what he plays with!

amother

Mustard

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 7:31 am

One of my nieces wanted to be a boy so badly. She wanted tzitzit and a kippa for her birthday. Cried when she couldn't wear a kippah (outside). She said her name was avrumi and wouldn't respond if you called her by her name. She was 5 .. at first we thought she's just joking.. but it went on for a couple months and we were worried why she was so into this. Why cry about the kippah .. so we tried to ask her and after a few months I asked her again. Why do you want to be avrumi? Why is avrumi better than being a girl? And she said: because boys always spend more time with tatti and I always have to stay home when tatti and the boys go to shul.
I told her mom, she spoke to her husband, they decided he would spend more time with the girls and that's it.. 4 days later no more kippa no more tzitzit.

With a boy it might be different. Maybe he thinks the clothes are pretty, the shoes are fun to walk on. Maybe he thinks his mother will love him more if he's a girl or that he doesn't want to be a man because he's upset with his dad.
I truely believe it's something emotional that goes away once it's talked about.
I also wanted to be a boy when I was 9. I hated being a girl.. because I knew my father wanted a boy and and been disappointed that I was a girl. Just glad I didn't grow up in 2018 when it would have been a whole gender identity issue lol

oneofakind

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 9:01 am

I wouldn't ban him from anything feminine he wants to do but he definitely needs positive male role models. An experienced, soft male therapist would be very helpful and would advise your daughter to rein in her older son and find a mentor/big brother, uncle etc. who he could spend time with.

Raisin

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 9:10 am

Its not that surprising if his father and older brother are not such nice people that he thinks being a girl is better. Maybe he needs more positive male role models.

I'm not sure why a boy playing with dolls is strange? Boys may see their fathers interacting with their baby siblings and are just modelling this behavior.

urban gypsy

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 9:54 am

Rappel wrote:

Side note: I actually think it's a great gift that we don't immediately question gender in religious society. All people have male and female aspects to their persona, and it's healthy to explore that through play. Our boys can put on dresses, play with dolls, or do whatever they want without having to question their basic identity while doing it. It's very freeing.

All these replies from calm and understanding Imas are making me so happy. But Rappel, I'm curious as to why you think religious culture is MORE open to boys exploring femininity through play? I really don't think that's the case. I can't imagine the frum families I know being okay with their boys playing the dresses etc. In what circles do you notice this? Can anyone else confirm?

Last edited by urban gypsy on Fri, Nov 30 2018, 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total

flowerpower

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 10:40 am

One of my boys only played with girl
Toys. I even had a random person ask me if he is a girl because he loved wheeling a doll carriage.

Another son loved wearing my clothes and snoods.... I never said a word.

Now they are both good healthy teenage boys. There are no rules that boys have to play with cars and girls with dolls.... they can explore in a healthy way. When people think too much into it then it becomes an issue! There are more and more little kids( preschool age) that are already trans( which is totally insane and very abusive on the parents end).

amother

Papaya

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 10:44 am

urban gypsy wrote:

All these replies from calm and understanding Imas are making me so happy. But Rappel, I'm curious as to why you think religious culture is more open to boys exploring femininity through play? I really don't think that's the case. In what circles do you notice this? Can anyone else confirm?

Chassidish and yeshivish. In Lakewood. We don't assume that a boy who plays with dolls or dresses up like Mommy is gay or trans. They are just kids. I have a neighbor. A 6 year old boy who is on the spectrum. Until about age 5 he would walk around in heels and pocketbooks. No one had any problem with it. My boys play with kitchen sets, but don't show much interest in dolls or girly dress up. My girls play with trucks and building toys. My daughter used to dress up like a Tatty, and say she's going to grow up to be a father. I would just nod and say that's nice etc. Sure grew out of it. I have never gotten any negative feedback from anyone.

simba

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 11:04 am

urban gypsy wrote:

My 4 yr old (BH not an the spectrum) loves dolls and pretty clothes. He wants to wear makeup and be a Kalla.. I don’t mind and let him play. Yes, he also likes monster trucks and guns!
He likes pretty things and that’s all. No big deal. In the secular world he would be seeing therapy for gender dysmorphia and asked whether he feels like a boy or girl etc..

amother

Denim

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 11:15 am

My girlie is growing up among boys & tries to imitate her sibs. Used to play with cars, makes tumblesauces on couch, when playing house she always says she's the totty. When playing with magna tiles, she's building bridges & hatzalah trucks, yet is very feminine too.

She'll get insulted fast. She cries & kvetches all the time. She'll show me her boo boos ten times. She'll look into the mirror to see herself. Now she started liking her hairbands & jewelry which she hated till now. Shes starting to be obsessed with her doll now. Dolly must do everything she does. She'll say nobody can look when she dresses because it's not tznius.

She's not 3 yet

fmt4

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 11:22 am

Wow. The ignorance show here is really amazing. None of you know what gender dysphoria actually is. It’s not kids who like dresses or trucks. It’s when kids are experiencing incredible pain, confusion, and frustration because they have a deep feeling of disconnect to their gender. These kids may threaten to cut off or maim their private parts, they may refuse to wear the clothing of their gender and scream and cry if forced. They may insist on being called the opposite gender. These are usually children in a lot of distress. There are plenty of stories out there of parents in religious/ conservative communities who had children who experienced real gender dysphoria and had to make heart wrenching decisions that went against their own beliefs in order to save their child’s mental health. You denigrate their pain by comparing it to your silly nothing stories.