Polygamy min haTorah

stem

Sat, Sep 24 2005, 11:30 pm

freilich and hadasa, I do NOT believe that it is in men's nature to want to have more than one woman if he's in a healthy relationship, especially when it's good in the bedroom.

Do you believe that men are intrinsically more prone to want another woman whether they are satisfied with their wife or not?

Tefila

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 1:04 am

Quote:

Do you believe that men are intrinsically more prone to want another woman whether they are satisfied with their wife or not?

Yes and just like we have yetzer hora for other things so too thats a mans one. And most men can conquer this yetzer hora B"h Wink

but yes it's intrinsically in their nature even if one is an excellent wife Exclamation

Everywhere we look incl in the Torah we see some men with more then one women Exclamation

somehow, somewhere, some legit, and some not, but lets face the facts.
It's a physical desire and not so much to have another wife so to speak but more like having another female.

stem

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 1:20 am

I'm trying to think of an instance in the Torah that a man had more than one wife for no other reason than the physical experience. I'm having a mental block. Anyone can think of some?

Quote:

It's a physical desire and not so much to have another wife so to speak but more like having another female.

freilich, is this a fact?

Tefila

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 1:29 am

A wife for pleasure and a wife for kids Exclamation

we nowadays thru Rabbeinu Gershams decree b"h Very Happy

Have to fulfill both

Freilich

Quote:

It's a physical desire and not so much to have another wife so to speak but more like having another female.
and
Stem wrote
freilich, is this a fact

Yes sorry to blow u over I thought it was a common fact Confused

but the Torah protected and continues to protect the women saying you can't just use her at your whim but it has to be in the framework of marriage and only during tahor times etc and she has rights you have to give her. Otherwise this world w/hout the torah would be worse then animals, so when a man cheats it's on him and his poor wife is made to feel like 2 cents but truthfully it's his problem and the marriage could be good for all one knows just he has a bad yetzer hora Exclamation

Last edited by Tefila on Sun, Sep 25 2005, 10:46 am; edited 2 times in total

ForeverYoung
Guest

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 1:40 am

Quote:

Remember? Sarah is one of the Imahos! Do you think Sarah had jealousy problems and therefore got rid of Yishmael!?

The pasuk and Rashi explain that it was Yishmael's terrible behavior and Sarah's fear of how this would influence Yitzchok that motivated her. And Hashem approved! Hashem told Avrohom to listen to Sarah!

wish I remembered who said it, but do u know why we suffer from the arabs so much today?
B/c Sarah kicked Hagar & Yishmoel out.

We are in no position to judge Sara imeinu, but this was said by a gadol who can.

Just makes us think again about the reprecussions of our actions.

Tefila

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 1:47 am

Quote:

wish I remembered who said it, but do u know why we suffer from the arabs so much today?
B/c Sarah kicked Hagar & Yishmoel out.

No but b/c Hashem told us we are the Chosen Nation and we will always be persecuted and hated but He will redeem us and bring us Salvation thru Moshiach.
Thats the reason the Arabs may give that we stole Jerusalem which was supposed to go to the Bachur Yishmael etc. But we as Hashems nation knows better.
But you r definatley right Jealousy has never helped improve a situation but has only made things worse. We have to think long term too

sarahd

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 3:20 am

stem wrote:

I'm trying to think of an instance in the Torah that a man had more than one wife for no other reason than the physical experience. I'm having a mental block. Anyone can think of some?

Well, Lemach had two wives, Ada and Tzila, one for children and one for beauty. But he is certainly not someone we take our cues from.

gryp

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 12:49 pm

Quote:

Yes sorry to blow u over I thought it was a common fact

freilich, you brought up this point many times on the forum, and im still wondering where you know this from. why do you believe so strongly that a man's nature is to have 2 wives? the Yetzer Hara has nothing to do with it, some people have a yetzer hara to eat treif or do whatever, does that mean its in their nature?

Quote:

We are in no position to judge Sara imeinu, but this was said by a gadol who can.

FY- ive heard that concept before but I believe your misrepresenting it. I have to check again where I learned it though.
and do you really believe that there is a single "gadol" today who can "judge" (ch"v) Sara Imeinu's behavior?
Sara Imeinu did the RIGHT thing of course, after all Hashem told Avraham "Shma B'Kolah" "listen to her voice."

stem

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 12:55 pm

I think the point is that even when she did the right thing, the fact that it happened still has an effect for all future generations with regard to the arabs and the jews.
I am not judging Sara Imeinu nor does any "gadol", this is just a fact that is commentated on in the Meforshim. I'm almost sure that one of the Rishonim said this, maybe someone could find the source?

gryp

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 12:58 pm

stem- I think that must be where I learned it, from one of the meforshim. but when FY used the word "judging" it sounded very different.

Tefila

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 1:59 pm

Quote:

freilich, you brought up this point many times on the forum,

This is the second time I believe Wink

And I double checked by going to ask moses and just asked Rabbi Yerachmiel Tilles of sefad Israel Kabbalah institute, if this is a mans Yetzer hora ,nature to want more then one women once they already have a wife to which he answered It is not an improper desire . so it's officialy was not even a yetzer hora before Rabbeinu gershoms time.
So does that help answer u'r question
Oh and he did say it is not one of the commandments one should have atleast one wife Tongue Out

b/c then Rabbeinu Gershom wouldn't have been able to put a gezeira on it

gryp

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 2:47 pm

Quote:

This is the second time I believe

at least third or fourth Smile

im not sure how R. Tilles's answer to you answers the question though. and if he does say that you are right, I wonder what his sources are, because I wont believe it until I see it written.

Quote:

The Sarah/Hagar issue was raised by Ramban, I believe.

Thanx, Crayon, it does sound like something the Ramban would say.

Motek

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 5:39 pm

sounds to me like the wording is confused

"it's man's nature to have more than wife" - is that a euphemism for "men want a variety of s-xual experiences"?

Rivka

Sun, Sep 25 2005, 5:51 pm

I seriously do not see this as a man's inclination. Remember plenty of women cheat on their husbands and in ancient egypt the woman were the ones who were prone to cheating.

I don't think because men cheat it is really just their natural instinct.
If you see in the torah who has more than one wife (in a good way) it is usually someone VERY great and VERY rich, it isn't your run of the mill.
So how does that fit into the concept of it's every man's nature?

Mandy

Sun, Oct 02 2005, 8:00 am

After reading this thread, I decided that I need to get me some wives. One to take care of me when I come home from work. Another one to keep my schedule running smoothly. And for sure a very nice wife to take care of my kids. Hope that's okay and not an improper desire. Very Happy

sarahd

Sun, Oct 02 2005, 10:32 am

Uh oh, Mandy, you're in trouble! Either you're a male imposter who doesn't belong on this forum, or you're a woman with unhealthy desires.... Twisted Evil