Talking to the dead and getting an answer

southernbubby

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:57 am

So the aunt who had recently had coronavirus and seemed to recover passed away a few days ago of unknown causes. A non frum family member seems to be psychic and when she communicates with the dead she comes up with secrets that few in the family of the dead person knew about but this convinces everyone that the conversations are real. A dead person may say, for example, that she left nickels around the house of a certain person to show that she is trying to contact them and then this person confirms that she kept finding nickels in odd places. In another case, the dead person was holding a baby and another member of that family finally divulged that there had been a miscarriage.
People are now convinced that my aunt is enjoying her new life in the next world so I hope that this is true but as frum people, I don't think that we converse with the dead and expect an answer but am I wrong?

tigerwife

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:59 am

You are correct.
The closest to this is probably people who see a dead person in their dreams, but even that is not active communication.

hodeez

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:00 am

We know that necromancy and the like exists, but as frum people we are not allowed to indulge in such practices. Do I believe your aunt? Not really. Unless she's really messing with some heebyjeeby prayer bracelet dreamcatcher voodoo.

cbsp

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:13 am

We are commanded "tamim tih-yeh" - no psychics, no palm reading, no seances, no witchcraft.

We don't go to psychics (the real ones that may actually have powers are the ones we need to stay away from. Otherwise it's just entertainment.) Rav Moishe was asked about "magicians" as entertainment and I think it was permitted since everyone knows it's speed, sleight of hand, and distraction. Even better would be to demonstrate how a trick is done.

Shaul Hamelech did use a "witch" to consult with Shmuel Hanavi after he was niftar - it was a time of severe need and it was a big decision to take such a serious step - there are many meforshim who discuss the ramifications.

imanonymous

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:14 am

Think about the story in Shmuel.

It exists, but most people who claim to be psychic are crocks, and it's certainly not okay halachically.

avrahamama

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:17 am

If she's a non from family member she can do whatever she likes to try to communicate with the dead. And she's either successful or making great guesses.

Are you asking if you can believe her?

Because we know this stuff exists. We also know it's not for us to attempt.

I don't know if you're allowed to believe her. But it's possible that she really is capable.

cbsp

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:23 am

Rappel wrote:

None of you think the living can talk/see neshamot? There goes half my gemara and chassidut...

That's something else.

Look into the story of Shaul referenced above...

Rappel

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:25 am

cbsp wrote:

That's something else.

Look into the story of Shaul referenced above...

Southernbubby didn't say her relative did anything creepy. She said that after other relatives were niftar, she saw one hiding nickels and another one holding a baby. I think that's plausible.

ShishKabob

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:26 am

Let her try knowing what you, a live person, are thinking and doing. Then we'll deal with the dead.
Of course its easier to claim she communicates with the dead. Is the dead person going to show up to defend themselves to agree or disagree with her?

southernbubby

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:34 am

Let me better explain:
The aunt recently passed away and another relative, who is psychic, contacted her in Heaven and has previously been in contact with others who reside in Heaven.

Rappel

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:35 am

ShishKabob wrote:

Funny story: Houdini was known to be very interested in contacting his mother after her passing. He went from psychic to psychic, and exposed them all as frauds. His proof: his mother only knew Yiddish, but the "spirits" he would hear at each conjuring spoke English.

ExtraCredit

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:42 am

Rappel wrote:

Like the guy who was convinced there’s a cat stuck in his stomach. No matter how many psychiatrists he visited there was no talking him out of it. So they finally decided to do a “surgery” and get the cat out. He woke up and they showed him the cat and congratulated him that it’s finally out, but he said “that’s not the one. I had a grey one and this one is black!” Confused

number

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:43 am

My guess is partly legit. I've been able to sense random creepy stuff about people too, that I found out later were true. Obviously without trying because we don't do that stuff.

ShishKabob

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:47 am

There definitely used to be such a concept of communicating with the dead. If it's allowed is a different story. If it comes from the power of tumaah is also another thing. If it also includes kishuf is another thing as well.
I would not believe in this either way.

yksraya

Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:50 am

southernbubby wrote:

Let me better explain:
The aunt recently passed away and another relative, who is psychic, contacted her in Heaven and has previously been in contact with others who reside in Heaven.

That's odd. Maybe she's schizophrenic?

While it's normal for the aveilim to feel the soul of the nifter during shiva, or see their face in dreams etc, it's odd that she says there was actual communication.