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-> New York related Inquiries
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amother
OP
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 Fri, Jul 02 2021, 1:15 am
https://boropark24.com/news/me.....story
Article says this is 13th avenue and 48th street in 1964.
In the upper left, between the 2 round "Coca Cola" Candy/Cigars store signs, it seems theres a train station entrance that says "BMT". I think I see a Lofts candy store, and I cant remember that on 13th avenue either, or a store called Savon, on the opposite side of 13th.
I was a little kid then, and I dont recall there ever being a train station on 13th avenue and 48th street.
I think someone made a mistake and this is not 13th avenue and 48th street.
In 1964, there were already a lot of frum people in Boro Park, and I dont see any Yarmulkes.
To me it looks similar to Church Avenue and East 17th, close to Ocean Avenue. Theres a train station there til today.
Does anyone here recognize where this is?
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birdy
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 1:29 am
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I’ve never actually lived in boro park, I can’t help you much, but spent a lot of time there with family and would love to see how this plays out! History fascinates me
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amother
OP
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 1:31 am
https://www.google.com/maps/pl.....data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZfYGovxzOMPS3buRNMcxLQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DZfYGovxzOMPS3buRNMcxLQ%26cb_client%3Dsearch.gws-prod.gps%26w%3D86%26h%3D86%26yaw%3D62.912148%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c25b3ec5d513ff:0xa709a7c84cd3f202!8m2!3d40.6494774!4d-73.9635152
You can enlarge the picture on the top left, by clicking on it.
Heres Church Avenue and East 17th, with the subway station in that spot off the corner.
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amother
OP
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 8:21 am
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Anyone have an opinion on were this picture was taken (where this subway station is)?
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 8:38 am
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From the position of the buildings in the back it looks more like 38 and 13
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 8:42 am
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amother
OP
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 8:43 am
| amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote: | | From the position of the buildings in the back it looks more like 38 and 13 |
In the 1960s, 38th and 13th had a subway station with elevated tracks, that were since removed. The entrance to the train station was a stairway (no longer there) and looked nothing like the entrance in this photo where it seems to me it says BMT (upper left, between the two red Coca Cola signs).
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lucite
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:23 am
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Looks to me more like 18/48
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amother
OP
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:38 am
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Am I the only one who sees the letters BMT, making guesses on location only sensible where theres a subway station now or was one in 1964.
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amother
Gardenia
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:39 am
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Can I ask why the big interest? Is this for specific research?
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amother
Honeydew
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:41 am
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Looks like 18 and Mcdonald.
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SYA
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:46 am
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Is that a Kennedy in the car?
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amother
OP
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:47 am
| amother [ Gardenia ] wrote: | | Can I ask why the big interest? Is this for specific research? |
No. I wonder how BP24 came up with this location for the picture. I think they or whoever identified this location that they copied from, is wrong.
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amother
Honeydew
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:47 am
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amother
Clover
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:48 am
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Almost definitely 13 & 38 I recognize that building in the back.
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amother
Honeydew
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 9:51 am
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On second glance doesn't only look like 18 and Mcdonald. It is 18 and Mcdonald. Take a walk you'll see.
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amother
OP
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 10:02 am
| amother [ Honeydew ] wrote: | | On second glance doesn't only look like 18 and Mcdonald. It is 18 and Mcdonald. Take a walk you'll see. |
18th and McDonald has elevated tracks. Theres no elevated tracks in this photo. Subway stations with elevated tracks, like New Utrecht in BP, dont have ground level entrances like in this photo. They have stairway entrances like on 45th, 50th, 55th, etc.
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amother
Nemesia
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 10:05 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | 
In 1964, there were already a lot of frum people in Boro Park, and I dont see any Yarmulkes.
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Nor would you as the neighborhood was not "frum" as anyone would understand it today. It was a Jewish neighborhood but even the Orthodox among them did not wear yarmulkes nor did the women wear head coverings. They also wore short sleeves and wore clothing that exposed their shoulder bones. They just dressed in the style of that era. They weren't immodest. If you look at pictures at Jewish women of that era, that is how they dressed.
By today's standards they would be considered to be very left wing MO - children generally went to after school Hebrew school and Sunday school and only a very few might go to one of the places like Yeshivah of Flatbush in lieu of public school.
This is not a value or any other kind of judgment - just a description of what the neighborhood was like back then. The neighborhood around Avenue J - FWIW - was pretty similar. It was mostly secular Jews who might at most go to synagogue on YK and RH. They wouldn't celebrate Xmas so there was a stark demarcation between the homes of the Italians and those of the Jewish families. From that neighborhood the would go to the Young Israel on Coney Island Avenue and Avenue I (or maybe it was H)
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amother
OP
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 10:34 am
| amother [ Nemesia ] wrote: | Nor would you as the neighborhood was not "frum" as anyone would understand it today. It was a Jewish neighborhood but even the Orthodox among them did not wear yarmulkes nor did the women wear head coverings. They also wore short sleeves and wore clothing that exposed their shoulder bones. They just dressed in the style of that era. They weren't immodest. If you look at pictures at Jewish women of that era, that is how they dressed.
By today's standards they would be considered to be very left wing MO - children generally went to after school Hebrew school and Sunday school and only a very few might go to one of the places like Yeshivah of Flatbush in lieu of public school.
This is not a value or any other kind of judgment - just a description of what the neighborhood was like back then. The neighborhood around Avenue J - FWIW - was pretty similar. It was mostly secular Jews who might at most go to synagogue on YK and RH. They wouldn't celebrate Xmas so there was a stark demarcation between the homes of the Italians and those of the Jewish families. From that neighborhood the would go to the Young Israel on Coney Island Avenue and Avenue I (or maybe it was H) |
No way! Maybe in 1944, not in 1964! Bais Yaakov of BP was already thriving in 1964! I was a student.
The Bais Yaakov of Boro Park built a huge new building that was completed in 1963, before the photo with the politicians was taken. There were lots of frum people living in Boro Park then, even Chassidish! The Bobover Rebbe moved to Boro Park about that time. His daughter was a grademate of mine. There were no Chassidish schools yet.
In 1963 when the HUGE new building opened, there were 4 parallel classes of each grade from 1-8, some learning in Hebrew, some learning in Yiddish, and preschool too, making it a school with thousands of students, already in 1963.
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amother
Nemesia
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Fri, Jul 02 2021, 10:42 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | No way! Maybe in 1944, not in 1964! Bais Yaakov of BP was already thriving in 1964! I was a student.
The Bais Yaakov of Boro Park built a huge new building that was completed in 1963, before the photo with the politicians was taken. There were lots of frum people living in Boro Park then, even Chassidish! The Bobover Rebbe moved to Boro Park about that time. His daughter was a grademate of mine. There were no Chassidish schools yet.
In 1963 when the HUGE new building opened, there were 4 parallel classes of each grade from 1-8, some learning in Hebrew, some learning in Yiddish, and preschool too, making it a school with thousands of students, already in 1963.
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There might have been pockets but many of the original people were still living there.
The OP questioned why there weren't yarmulkes and I was explaining why in terms of the demographics of the neighborhood. You are overstating the percentage of people as 1964 would have been at the cusp.
It was just starting - maybe a few years earlier than Midwood which but it did not in any way have teh density of population of extreme Orthodox Jews in that year.
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