Improving Jewish Literature (merged)

B'tzimtzim

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 6:34 pm

RivkiA:
If you are going to use a Rabbincal psak in your book, you (the author) shouldn't be the one making it up. In other words, very often in books somebody ends up going to a rabbi for advice. I wonder if the authors actually ask a Rabbi this question first, or do they just make up whatever psak would fit well with the story. It shouldn't be the latter, b/c many people read these books and (subconsciously) internalize the message.

bashinda

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 9:37 pm

Wow, people brought up pretty much all my gripes about Jewish books! I felt like I was reading a certain book about somebody's double life again and again and again. Help me, please.

My problem is I love reading. My problem is, I have the same problems everybody else has with Jewish literature. My problem is I don't read secular literature anymore. Now, go back to the first word in this paragraph and start reading again.

I actually have dreams where I'm in a bookstore or a library and I'm looking for books. I keep on picking up mass market paperbooks, trade paperbacks, hardbackbooks, musty old books, beautiful smelling new books. Invariably, the end of the dream has me losing all the books I've amassed.

What can I say but Banging head

I'm trying to ignore this and learn more chassidus but sometimes I really wish I could just read a good Penguin or a Vintage again.

chaylizi

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 10:00 pm

there is plenty of well written jewish literature. the novels just don't make the cut. I have a library of jewish books big enough that people come and borrow from me. only a handful of my books are novels.

chaylizi

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 10:09 pm

you can either adapt or you can wear your teeth down while reading frum novels. I have terrible tmj & all this reading jewish novels is causing me tremendous pain in my face & jaw. I switched to non-fiction & almost all of the pain went away Wink

leomom

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 10:19 pm

I realize that authors or others involved in Jewish publishing may be reading this... and I just want to say that we are obviously exaggerating to make a point. However, the problems we are parodying are definitely real problems in many/most Jewish novels.

Still, if you are an author reading this, it may very well be that YOUR book is meticulously written and edited. There are always exceptions to any rule! I do think there are some very talented writers out there, and once in a while a book does surprise me pleasantly.

I do sometimes wonder, though, whether novels published by Jewish publishers are "workshopped" the way many secular novels are -- critiqued and revised extensively in order to bring them up to the highest quality possible. Are they? Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of this? I'm just curious.

leomom

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 10:25 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Sarale, hearing her friend's mournful plea, decided that after the next fifteen years of upsherins, she would devote her life to philanthropy. She decided to open an underwear gemach. "No one else has one," she noted, " and there is such an obvious need for one."

Fifteen years and two days later, there were eight pairs of underwear in Sarale's mailbox. She sighed with satisfaction, success was within her reach, her chessed would soon reach those in need. Soon it would all be worth it, all the planning, all the tears, all the joy. She only wished she could have done it sooner.

The next day her oldest son Kalman trembled over the phone wire, "Mamme, I-I-I-I-I-I'm engaged." Sarale knew for certain that the underwear had been the segula for the shidduch, it was bashert.

amother

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 12:06 am

smilethere wrote:

one of the main reasons I go to non-jewish reading - is the historical aspect. I love reading about daily life in far off places and far off times (obviously only if the author has done research)

what about australia in the 1800's, england in the time of william the conqueror 1066....

try "Avrohom Avinu of Australia" by Uri Kaploun

Ima'la

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 2:08 am

chaylizi wrote:

just buy it in hebrew then. if it's english literature being marketed to english speaking people, it should be a quality translation. I might not have the best language and grammar skills, but I'm not writing books for others to buy. other mistakes are not language based. in one book, the main character makes himself a cup of coffee & then sips his tea for the whole next page. if on page 25 a man is named mr rosenfeld, then don't call him mr rosenberg later in the chapter. and a book is not a thesaurus, no one cares how many big words you know. they want to be able to read a book with a plot, minus the 40 cliches in each paragraph. also the plots are generally poorly thought out and very "frummy".

Coffee/tea is one of my favorites slip-ups! (I have a collection. I think it's fun.)

hadasa wrote:

I prefer to read Hebrew books in the original, otherwise I often find myself back-translating into Hebrew, in order to figure out what the author really meant.

I also do the back-translating. It's like a game for me.

Apple pie

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 8:13 am

Raisin, thanks for the link, very interesting.

Many hebrew novels were first published as episodes in a magazine. This explains why sometimes the chapters end artificially after some trick to raise the suspense. Very annoying...

Bashinda, I loved your "start reading again" paragraph - cute!

Quote:

My problem is I love reading. My problem is, I have the same problems everybody else has with Jewish literature. My problem is I don't read secular literature anymore. Now, go back to the first word in this paragraph and start reading again.

freidasima

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 1:21 pm

I used to like the Marcus Lehman stuff, that was written in Germany in the 1800 for frum young people...I would read it in English, had the whole series of what he wrote when I was a kid..historical novels and stuff like that...about Rabeinu Gershom, and Bustenai and lots of other things. Anyone ever read it?

Ima'la

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 1:34 pm

bashinda wrote:

Ima'la, about the coffee/tea, that happens a lot? I saw it in one book. The secretary brings in tea and a page later it magically had turned into coffee.

No, I didn't mean to say it happens often - just that type of inconsistency. In that same book, for instance, it is mentioned as a side-point that the older sister of the hot-drink-drinker hadn't been able to come to the States from Israel for his wedding because she couldn't travel with her two very young children. Except that she never had two very young children because she has a son followed by twin daughters!

As it happens, I think that particular author is excellent and I LOVE her writing. I'm afraid to mention her name b/c I'm afraid she'll just get bashed too (and I don't want to be the cause of L"H). But I think the reason I catch the inconsistencies in her books is that I re-read them so many times because even though I already know the story, I can still enjoy her phenomenal writing style.

Besides, I'm not sure if the inconsistencies are really something to complain to an author about or if they really should have been caught in editing.

Apple pie

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 1:38 pm

freidasima wrote:

Yes, I read them. Suss Openheimer was one of my favourites.

sarahd

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 1:42 pm

freidasima wrote:

Probably only members of a certain age, which is what, 10% of the population here? In the olden days we might not have had too much Jewish literature, but at least we were spared all the modern-day junk. I think Marcus Lehmann's books are out of print and the publisher isn't reprinting them because they're not appropriate for today's chareidi kids. The only thing available is a new bowdlerized translation...not worth anyone's time.

bashinda

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 1:47 pm

Ima'la, I think we're talking about the same book! You should be an editor. I missed that part about the 2 young children but you're right she would have had 1 or 3 but not two! Oops. Also in that book a character has a fall and I think his injuries change.

In general I enjoyed the book and looking back I think it's because although there is a bit of a thriller plot it's not the main plot and she spends time on characterization and how her characters grow and develop throughout the book. I found one character to be especially endearing and wouldn't even mind reading a sequel about her.

It just needed some more editing especially for continuity.

hadasa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 2:07 pm

Can we start a "discrepancy in books " thread? I never noticed the coffee /tea in that book, nor the two young kids, but I was confused by the nosebleed that needed stitches on the forehead. The same author (who's one of my favorites btw ) has a character whose Hebrew birthday is Shavuos and English one is July 4th. Maybe there were three Adars that year.