Dh has negative association with my grandmother's name

amother

Puce

Mon, Mar 31 2008, 11:53 pm

Hi everyone! I just discovered this site, so please bear with me if I don't know all the protocols or abbreviations.

I just entered my 9th month. My dh and I have no idea whether we are having a boy or a girl. We picked out a boy's name very quickly, but we're having major difficulties choosing a girl's name. I want to name a daughter Kayla after my grandmother a"h, but my dh doesn't like the name. His mother had a cleaning lady by that name when he was growing up, so it doesn't seem like a proper Jewish name to him. To make things more complicated, my step-grandmother was just niftar. (My grandmother died 25 years ago, and my grandfather remarried 2 years later. So my step-grandmother was really like a grandmother to me.) So now I feel like maybe I should name a daughter after her even though I'm not technically a blood descendant. The problem is that I really don't like her name. Can anyone help me figure out hebrew equivalents for the name Yenta Tzina?

Last edited by amother on Sun, Nov 25 2018, 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total

louche

Tue, Apr 01 2008, 12:36 am

Keila is supposedly a yiddishification of hebrew kelilah, which means a crown (yerushalayim is called kelilat yoffi, a crown of beauty). if you don't care for kelilah, there's Atarah, which also means a crown. or kreindel, if you go for yiddish names.

yenta is either a corruption of Ionthe or a variant by back-formation of yentl, a yiddishification of Gentille, meaning noble or aristocratic. malkah (queen) or Gevirah (noblewoman) or sarah (princess) might do, and any of these would pair well with Atarah. Atzilah also means noblewoman and I've no doubt somewhere some girls bear this name, but not anyone I know personally or by reputation. There's also Atirah, meaning "one who is crowned", but you have to be sure to spell it 'ayin-tet-yud-resh-heh". with a taf instead of a tet it means "a plea" or "a petition"--also a lovely name, one I actually like even better, but not the meaning you're looking for.

maybe our resident linguist ruchel can help you with the tzina. so far I can't find it. Tzinah in hebrew tzadi-nun-heh means a shield, but it also means a harsh cold, so it's double-edged. tzin'ah, tzadi-nun-'ayin-heh means secrecy or privacy--but neither of these is a yiddish name or indeed a name at all.

If you took something like Kelilah Sarah or Atarah Gevirah (one from column A, one from column B) you could honor both grandmothers, biological and step, at the same time.

BeershevaBubby

Tue, Apr 01 2008, 12:56 am

From the "A dictionary of Ashkenazic given names" by Alexander Beider:

Quote:

Tsine
Of uncertain origin. Rothwand and Zhurakovskij suggested that this appellation represented a phonetic variant of Sine. That form, in turn, is likely to arise as the feminine counterpart of the identical masculine name.

Entry for the masculine name Sine:
Created by Jews from the Hebrew "Samach-yud-nun-yud" (Sinay), the desert and Mount Sinai where Moses received the Ten Commandments. Zunz states that for the Middle Ages, this name appears in Jewish sources from western Europe only in Germany. The reference from medieval Kiev indicates that, most likely, the name is not western, but of eastern origin. It could have been brought to Germany by oriental* Jewish migrants.

* The term 'oriental' usually refers to Mizrachi (Middle East, rather than Far East).

Ruchel

Tue, Apr 01 2008, 9:30 am

What about pairing up the name of the step grandmother with Kayla, putting Kayla in the end? so it's there, but not in first place?
Yenta Tzina Kayla seems nice to me.

As for Hebrew, these names don't have official equivalents or translations because their origin is a machlokes.

Yenta comes from old French "gentille", meaning noble (not nice, this is the modern meaning).
Tzina I have found so many things... same for Kayla...

chaylizi

Tue, Apr 01 2008, 9:38 am

that's hard- I have bad luck with my family names.
my grandfather was just niftar & I love his name- shaul yechezkel, but dh's grandfather is shaul & I won't split up the name
both my great grandfathers on my mother's side are menachem mendel & I wanted to name that ever since I can remember. but dh has a great uncle who died tragically at age 9 & that was his name & it is the famiy minhag not to give the name. Not that I have a boy yet. But I understand what it means to have a name mean a lot to you & not be able to give it. Sad

Ruchel

Tue, Apr 01 2008, 9:53 am

chayitty wrote:

just as a side point...when naming someone after someone ur giving them there mazel...naming after 2 people deosnt give em either mazel...lots of people try to stay away from combining 2 grandparents for names

My rav says it's ok, and definitely naming after the two. We named dd after three people. I see from my family tree it was done forever... many rabbanim/rebbetzins by the way bear the name of two or three ancestors!
It's a question for a rav, although I have never met people saying not to do it irl. It's just so common... few babies have only one Jewish name today in France. I see two, three a lot. And when I ask it's generally one person from mother side, one from father...

amother

Puce

Tue, Apr 01 2008, 10:44 am

Thanks for all the replies so far! I don't know how to do the quote thing, so I'll just address some of the points made.

The grandmother named Kayla died young, so we've been told to add on another name to change the mazel. That's why naming after both my grandmother and my step-grandmother seems appropriate. If we used Kayla as a middle name, though, my mother would never forgive us. That was her mother's name, and it's very important to her to have a granddaughter named properly for her. I already have cousins who have named a daughter Kayla, but it's not the same thing.

Of course, if this baby ends up being a boy, then I won't have to worry about a girl's name for a while. Who knows, by then one of my brothers might marry and have a baby girl named Kayla.

Last edited by amother on Sun, Nov 25 2018, 2:37 am; edited 1 time in total

BeershevaBubby

Tue, Apr 01 2008, 12:13 pm

chayitty wrote:

Well, that's your opinion and possibly your Rav's opinion so that's what you do.

I have a different opinion (as does my Rav) and I do differently.

ny_ima

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 12:17 am

Quote:

lots of people try to stay away from combining 2 grandparents for names

I heard this has to do with how these 2 ppl got along. if they didn't get along, it can be problematic for the neshama.

in this case, I dont know if they even met... naming after someone with added name, its not the same thing as naming after neshama, cuz the name has been altered. (just like adding name to someone who died young can affect a better mazal... but in this case most ppl add a name)

ultimately, whatever name is given IS THE name of the neshama. women are known to have special ruach hakodesh concerning the name of the child.

whatever it is, may it be in the best of mazal!

ps I used to hate specific name, and didnt even want to befreind a sil with that name... after getting to know her, the name got new connotation and it all seems so silly to me now! if kayla is the daughter, the old association to the name will instantly disappear!

amother

Puce

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 9:32 pm

Quote:

ps I used to hate specific name, and didnt even want to befreind a sil with that name... after getting to know her, the name got new connotation and it all seems so silly to me now! if kayla is the daughter, the old association to the name will instantly disappear!

That's kind of what I'm hoping. I personally think Kayla is a pretty, very lyrical sounding name, but I've also had practically a whole lifetime to get used to it. I know dh is going to love this child wholeheartedly, so I figure as a daughter's name it will take on a new positive association. I hope.

Last edited by amother on Sun, Nov 25 2018, 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total

hila

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 1:17 am

Parents have nevua when naming a child. Go with both your feelings.
If you do not want to use Kayla - (or your dh does noesnt) then DONT use it.
Find a good reason for your mother. But it isyour baby not hers. SHe will love the baby anyway.

We had a name picked for one of our kids, and when we saw her for the first time - we both said that the name was not suitable, and found another name that fitted her perfectly.

Go with your feelings and listen to them. Your shalom bayit is the most important thing here.