selling chometz | Imamother

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach

Selling chometz

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baba

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 6:57 am

The topic on selling chometz got me thinking since most people, from very different backgrounds seem to sell their chometz. Now we learnt that selling chometz is really not such a good option. It is something that only recently has come to Judaism (last 200 years) and was introduce for all the businessmen that owned large produce of something chometz. It was not introduced so every household could save a box of cereal. Therefore, we do not hold by it and either give away eat and in the end throw away whatever's left. I'm not judging people, to each his own, but my question and surprise lies with the more chareidi community. In my understanding, to chareidim being machmich is a very good thing. So I just dont understand why so many people have absolutely no problem with selling chometz. I mean, it wasnt really ment for private people, you're selling to someone, but if you're honest, it's not really being sold. You know the [gentile] buying it has absolutely no intention of claiming it, and you know it's yours again in a week. And you have actual chometz in your house over pesach. Again, I'm not looking to bash, I just cant understand this. Especially not from people who in general try to go the extra mile.

shalhevet

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 7:13 am

Most Litvish I know do not sell chometz, unless it's 'hefsed merubeh' = a great loss.

justanothermother

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 7:27 am

As long as everyone asked their Rav and was told it's alright, it is not our business to judge or question.

catonmylap

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:05 am

baba wrote:

I think different groups/people are machmir on different things across the Orthodox spectrum.

Just because someone is ___________(fill in the blank who you think is the frumest) does not mean that they are more frum than other people/groups.

The same way there was a thread where women here were upset that chassidish women were doing things that others thought were wrong... Just because someone is *ultra* in the way they dress, does not mean they approach everything else that way (for good/and for bad).

Another example you could point to-is how come many chassidim aren't careful about zmanin when it comes to davening?

Last edited by catonmylap on Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total

baba

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:05 am

I guess I just have a different opinion. I think there's nothing wrong in asking a question when you don't understand something. And nobody is forced to answer.
Shalhevet, that's also what we would do. Maybe it's not as many people as I think it is, that's also why I decided to ask the question.

baba

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:18 am

Catonmylap, I totally understand your point. But it still leaves me wondering how this one crept in. It's kinda a kula on a kula and the idea of having chametz in your house on pesach is quite a major one...

baba

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:19 am

Just like to add that I'm just trying to be enlightened here. Maybe someone will come and show me how it's not a kula and I'll come to understand the issue in a totally different light.

amother

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:23 am

In our family (my parents) we dont either sell the chometz. Growing up between the chassidishe world, I would often get shocked reactions from people (even from a teacher!), like "what?? you dont sell the chometz??" In school we always learnt about mechiras chometz, like one of the "mitzvos" of Pesach! It seems that in the chassidishe world it is davka an inyan to yes sell the chometz, whether you have chometz or not, you find something to sell! dont know why. I guess its just a very strong minhag.

catonmylap

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:24 am

baba wrote:

Just like to add that I'm just trying to be enlightened here. Maybe someone will come and show me how it's not a kula and I'll come to understand the issue in a totally different light.

For the record, my parents always sold their chometz. My father would say what's the difference between selling my chometz and after Pesach buying the chometz from the store (who sold their chometz)?

amother

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:27 am

Quote:

My father would say what's the difference between selling my chometz and after Pesach buying the chometz from the store (who sold their chometz)?

Ah, but we don't buy chometz from a yiddishe store after Pesach either. We only buy from non jewish stores or from bakeries who bought flour from a [gentile] after Pesach.

shalhevet

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:31 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

My father would say what's the difference between selling my chometz and after Pesach buying the chometz from the store (who sold their chometz)?

Ah, but we don't buy chometz from a yiddishe store after Pesach either. We only buy from non jewish stores or from bakeries who bought flour from a [gentile] after Pesach.

Why? Do you know why the rabbonim made it assur to eat chometz that was owned by a Jew during Pesach? So as to make a 'knas' (fine) for those who didn't sell their chometz.

So now you are punishing and making a knas for those who sold their chometz k'das vke'din, by not buying your chometz from them after Pesach. Who said you should give your custom to non jews? (assuming the yidden did sell their chometz properly)

GetReal

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 8:35 am

I posted on the other thread, that the Ba'al HaTanya wrote the shtar mechira that Lubavitchers use. He was very careful to make it halachically a valid and real sale, so I don't hesitate to sell chametz. My Litvish friends tell me they try not to sell chametz though, only keilim.

baba

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 10:39 am

catonmylap, I think there's a big difference. A store owner will lose a tun of money and that's the whole reason why we're allowed to sell chametz, for big financial loss. I on the other hand, dont would lose maybe 20 shek in the end, if that, by careful planning. For me that's not a valid reason to keep chometz in my house.

Getreal, could you elaborate maybe?

chaylizi

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 10:49 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

My father would say what's the difference between selling my chometz and after Pesach buying the chometz from the store (who sold their chometz)?

Ah, but we don't buy chometz from a yiddishe store after Pesach either. We only buy from non jewish stores or from bakeries who bought flour from a [gentile] after Pesach.

who exactly is we? the halacha is not to buy chometz that a jew owned over pesach. there are plenty of frei store owners that don't sell their chometz or sell it incorrectly. This is a problem. Why you boycott the owners of heimishe stores after pesach b/c they sold their chometz is completely beyond me. What about all those people who only eat heimishe hechsherim? After pesach do they starve? Or do they buy their heimishe hechsherim from walmart? Please don't make blanket statements for everyone on this site.

amother

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 11:02 am

chaylizi wrote:

amother wrote:

Quote:

My father would say what's the difference between selling my chometz and after Pesach buying the chometz from the store (who sold their chometz)?

Ah, but we don't buy chometz from a yiddishe store after Pesach either. We only buy from non jewish stores or from bakeries who bought flour from a [gentile] after Pesach.

Uh hello, by "we" I meant WE as in US, my family. Who made blanket statements? Confused

As I said, we dont sell chometz, and since we dont hold of selling chometz, we dont buy by anyone who sold the chometz. simple as that. and we eat only heimishe hechsherim. and there are some non jewish stores in BP who already know to stock up on the heimishe chometz before pesach because they know that after pesach they will have huge business. And many bakeries started buying their flour from a [gentile] after pesach too bec. of this. And years ago, before these non jewish stores became smart, my mother would buy flour from a [gentile], and make her own bread, cakes....and we had no bought chometz until shavuos.

chaylizi

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 11:06 am

thanks for your very polite answer. most appreciated.

Last edited by chaylizi on Wed, Apr 09 2008, 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total

cassandra

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 11:13 am

Quote:

I don't understand how you can sell chametz in your dishes. You can't see it or feel it and it has no value. What sane person would want to buy this?Presumably you don't care about it and are mevatel it. Selling things like this seems to make a mockery of the mechira process, which is enough of a stretch as it is.

I asked this on another thread and got no response. Maybe it's more appropriate here.

Raisin

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 11:18 am

Lubavitchers are not strict about selling chametz. I asked dh why and he said because the alter rebbe allowed it.

bh because it would be a big problem for us. Since we don't have good kosher stores in our town, we have to stock up on things like bread, crackers, etc. if we sold all our bread we would not have any bread after pesach.

I was upset to see that some people actually throw away food. Why cant you give it to your cleaner, your neighbours cleaner, a homeless shelter, your non jewish neighbour etc.

chaylizi

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 11:18 am

cassandra wrote:

Quote:

I asked this on another thread and got no response. Maybe it's more appropriate here.

I looked online to search for you. The best I found was that it isn't truly necessary but we do it b/c it remains the minhag. Will keep looking. Very Happy

shalhevet

Wed, Apr 09 2008, 11:22 am

Raisin wrote:

I was upset to see that some people actually throw away food. Why cant you give it to your cleaner, your neighbours cleaner, a homeless shelter, your non jewish neighbour etc.

There is an issur of lo techonenaim - giving a free gift to a non-Jew. (BTW, my cleaner is a frum lady, so that wouldn't help me Tongue Out

)

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