One day or two days, when visiting?

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach

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Motek

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 11:56 am

I have heard that some rabbonim pasken that if you are visiting Eretz Yisrael, you make one seder, not two.

And for Israelis visiting abroad? Two, not one?

JewishMother18

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 12:15 pm

We had that situation a few years ago when we visited family in the UK for Pesach (we live in Israel).

We had the first night just with my parents, completely according to halacha. The second night was at my sister's house. They are not shomrei Shabbat and we we walked over there and sat with them through the seder even although we didn't have to take part. It got around the various problems that there would otherwise have been.

chocolate moose

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 12:54 pm

question for a rov, not a discussion.

Ruchel

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 2:14 pm

Motek wrote:

I have heard that some rabbonim pasken that if you are visiting Eretz Yisrael, you make one seder, not two.

And for Israelis visiting abroad? Two, not one?

I heard two for the first case, one for the second.

Who are the rabbanim of the first case?

Newsie

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 2:17 pm

I thought it was the Chabad shita that you keep one day in E"Y and two in chu"l. Everyone else- different minhagim. Most say, even if you're visiting keep two, but there is a very large trend of people coming and visiting Israel and only keeping one (It's based on the teshuva of the Chacham Tzvi) Many sephardim will only keep one day in Israel even if they're only visiting because of a teshuva of Rav Ovadia Yosef shlit"a.

freidasima

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 3:19 pm

The shita I know is that if you are Israeli abroad you keep one day but try not to be mechalel anything bifarhesya because to the outsiders you look like a frum Jew but don't have a sign saying "I'm Israeli". If you are not Israeli and you come to Israel for the seder you have to keep two. However if you have three festivals in a row in EY you can keep after that like an Israeli even if you aren't. That's why some yeshivas in EY with foreign students send you home for Sukkos even if you want the experience of having it in EY, and even though of course it is bein hazemanim, but they encourage it so that you don't have the halachic problem.

Ruchel

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 3:22 pm

In my town there is a small dozen of Israeli family, MO, and they do only one seder because they plan to go back to Israel eventually.
There are people who want the nationality to keep only one but I think the rabbis don't allow this.

Crayon210

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 5:35 pm

Newsie wrote:

I thought it was the Chabad shita that you keep one day in E"Y and two in chu"l.

Yup.

(Though I have heard of Lubavitchers who do otherwise.)

klotzkashe

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 7:01 pm

When I was in seminary either rabbi Chitrik or Rabbi Bistritzky A"H gave a shiur on this just before Pesach. Basically - in the times of the BHMK it took almost 11days to reach some parts of eretz yisroel for messengers to relay the message that a certain day had become Rosh Chodesh. SO they instituted that anyone who lived 11days horseride from Yerushalayim had to keep 2 day sof yom tov - whether or not they lived in E"Y or CHU"L.
Once the Luach Hakavua (Set Calendar) was established, BN"Y in places far from Yerushalayim had been keeping 2 days of yom tov for hundreds of years - since you cannot subtract from Kedusha, it remained that everyone in the world far from yerushalayim had to celebrate 2 days of yom tov.
So, If you are closeby to Yerushalayim, then you do not need to celebrate two days because you would have gotten the message that it was R"CH and you would know to celebrate the Yom Tov on a particular day. THerefore even if you are only VISITING e"Y, you need only keep one day, because you are in close proximity to yerushalayim.
But if you are travelling in CHUL, you would need to rely on two days for yom tov because this is the accepted version for people who are outside of E"Y. Even if you know the exact dates of Yom Tov, it is the accepted tradition that has become Halacha that Jews who find themselves in CHUL for Yom Tov keep two days.
hope this all makes sense.
I kept one seder in israel for pesach.

Raizle

Tue, Apr 22 2008, 10:01 pm

When I was in Israel I was told that the Rebbe said when you go to E"Y, you are going to stay, even if your ticket says otherwise, therefore you keep like E"Y.
I don't know about the otherway around.

Newsie

Wed, Apr 23 2008, 3:28 am

My dh told me that there is a source somewhere in the writings of the tzemach tzedek that explains the Chabad one day in E"Y, two day in chu"l shita. I don't remember what it is though

ChossidMom

Wed, Apr 23 2008, 5:06 am

chocolate moose wrote:

question for a rov, not a discussion.

Chocolate Moose is right again...

happyone

Wed, Apr 23 2008, 9:12 am

ChossidMom wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

question for a rov, not a discussion.

Chocolate Moose is right again...

Motek

Wed, Apr 23 2008, 10:48 am

ChossidMom wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

question for a rov, not a discussion.

Chocolate Moose is right again...

I found her comment inane.

We have a Halacha section of this forum in which she has participated. This thread is not to pasken for anyone (by now, on chol ha'moed, I think whoever needed to know, found out). Klotzkashe's post was enlightening and I'm glad she posted.

chocolate moose

Wed, Apr 23 2008, 11:13 am

yes, very nice motek. that doesn't mean to be mean to ppl !

catonmylap

Wed, Apr 23 2008, 11:31 am

We keep 2 days when we go to chul.

It's very hard to keep 1. You can't tell anyone you are doing it. And you need to daven a different davening.... As a single girl, I went back one year and kept only 1 day. It was easy since it didn't make a difference that I didn't go to shul. My father used me to turn on the stove/oven. I went to a second seder, and it was nice to eat/drink only how much I wanted to without worrying about quantities... But as a married person, it would be too complicated for dh....he said we have to keep 2 there.

greenfire

Wed, Apr 23 2008, 1:01 pm

I heard the exact opposite ...

unless you change residency ... but if merely visiting you keep like you keep ... only not to be maros ayin so be careful not to make s/o else think you are not keeping yomtov who doesn't know you are from eretz yisrael

JewishMother18

Wed, Apr 23 2008, 3:02 pm

That's exactly what my Rav told me both here and in the UK and when we were last in the UK for Pesach we just stayed at home on 2nd day Yom Tov rather than go out and give the wrong impression.

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