Help me figure out if I can do this chesed (lending house)

amother

Hyacinth

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 3:46 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

Since I could never conceive of asking anyone but a close relative let alone a casual acquaintance of neighbor to do this, I feel no obligation to lend my house to someone when I am not there.

For those who do stay in a stranger's house I have a few questions

Do you hire or provide enough for someone to clean the house or do you scour the house before you leave? If someone stayed in my home I would not rest easy until it was thoroughly cleaned.

Do you give a very generous hostess gift?

Do you eat or drink anything? If so do you replenish what you have taken?

Do you feel free to use the toiletries in the bathroom like shampoo and conditioner?

What about utilities especially air conditioning when it is hot?

How do you handle damages? Do you replace it? Do you inspect for any hidden damage your kids might have done?

For homeowners - Are you nervous about lice, pinworms, bedbugs or other vermin that might be brought into the home. Even if you locked up your master they would be using your mattresses and using your bathrooms.

So your point is no one is ever allowed to use any items inside your house. What if someone who isn’t a member of your family uses the bathroom? Maybe you should tell them to give you back four gallons of water, two tablespoons of soap, and hire a cleaning lady to clean the toilet.

Like do you apply this in your own life, too? If anyone ever gives you a ride, do you deposit a liter of gas at their doorstep the next day? Leave $5.43 for the wear and tear that your extra weight added to the car?

amother

Ultramarine

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 3:58 pm

amother Hyacinth wrote:

You are deliberately misunderstanding me. Of course I have people in my home but when I am there I am aware of where they are and what they use.

Why do people try to make a point by exaggerating what was stated in the original post.

If you truly think that having strangers using your home for several days is equivalent to having your friends and family for dinner or even having your friends and family stay over WHILE you are there, you have a strange view of hospitality. I invite people and loved family and friends to MY HOME because I enjoy their company and generally. in functional relationships, there is some form of reciprocity. I have you for dinner and absent some extenuating circumstances you have me for dinner.

And yes I would clean the bathroom after I had a lot of guests using the bathroom as a normal hygienic measure.

In terms of car rides or other normal interactions among friends and family, no I don't because in non-dysfunctional relationships stuff is reciprocal for the most part. On the other hand, if someone were driving my child to school on a regular basis you bet I would pay them OR if I was being driven a long distance I would absolutely kick in for gas and tolls and probably also snacks if appropriate.

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:04 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

You say you can not conceive of this....

Do you seriously not know people who host others? Where do you live? I'm genuinely curious.

Hosting is common throughout the US and my relatives in Yerushalayim and Beit Shemesh let others use theirs and use others apartments. I don't know Europeans.

I want to point out that your last paragraph should be a concern for you even if you were home. Really goes for all your concerns.

In that case....
What if youre hosting me in your guest room for my nephew's bar mitzvah while you're home, do you want me to replace the orange juice I drank (offered by hostess)? Am I scouring the guest bathroom? Am I searching the house for hidden damage from my toddler? Are you freaking out about posdible bedbugs in my suitcase?

Where do you put it your guests when you make a simcha? Nobody you know invites their families for sumchas and puts them up by neighbors???

amother

Ultramarine

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:09 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

You say you can not conceive of this....

Do you seriously not know people who host others? Where do you live? I'm genuinely curious.

Hosting is common throughout the US and my relatives in Yerushalayim and Beit Shemesh let others use theirs and use others apartments. I don't know Europeans.

I want to point out that your last paragraph should be a concern for you even if you were home. Really goes for all your concerns.

In that case....
What if youre hosting me in your guest room for my nephew's bar mitzvah, do you want me to replace the orange juice I drank? Am I scouring the guest bathroom? Am I searching the house for hidden damage from my toddler? Are you freaking out about posdible bedbugs in my suitcase?

Where do you put it your guests when you make a simcha? Nobody you know invites their families for sumchas and puts them up by neighbors???

Did you bother to read my response which answered most of your "gotchas".

I don't know anyone who lends their house to a stranger when they aren't home. They do host friends and family WHO THEY WANT TO SEE and obviously they (and I) are don't measure out the toothpaste - don't try to score a point by being ridiculous.

I see a difference between between people I love invited into my home so I can have the pleasure of their company versus someone I don't know who is in my personal space when I am not there because they want a free place to stay.

Why doesn't the community build the equivalent of a motel to house people if housing is an issue for transients.

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:19 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

Again. Where do you live that this is a completely foreign concept to you?

And you didn't address hosting neighbors relatives when you are home (for simchas or
Whatever). All your reasons indicate you don't do that either.

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:31 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

Sorry,I had not read your responses as I think we cross posted.

I still would have listed mine, because if you read my post they were for staying I your guest room while you're home so I can attend a simcha.

Again, you've never done that or heard of that?

With regards to a motel....were talking shobbos and yom tov here. People usually are staying close to the baalei simcha, at neighbors a short walk away. Where are you putting this motel? How many are you having so it's a normal walk for people?

Most cities I know have a lack of space in frum areas....which house in my neighborhood are you denying a family desperately searching for a house to live in all week long so it can be used s a "motel" on shobbos so no body ever should need to lend out or use a guestroom or empty house of their relatives neighbor?

It's ok to be stuffy about your things. You don't have to do this.

What gets me is the people who act like it's unheard of. Seriously, you've never heard of it? Probably every simcha you've attended has had someone (even if it's not you) staying in an empty house.

amother

Ultramarine

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:31 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

It is moot because I don't have room to host strangers if I am home.

I can host family and friends because no one would expect their own room and privacy the way a stranger would. I think most people squeeze in family or good friends even if there isn't a dedicated space - children can share a room with their cousins and there would be a pull out for adults.

What difference does my geographical location make - among my circle of friends and neighbors it would be considered to be a gauche request for a casual acquaintance to ask to use your home if you are going away.

I am a private person and the thought of someone in my space when I am not there is creepy to me. If it doesn't bother you, that's great - everyone has different levels of sensitivity and need for privacy.

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:36 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

Rubies

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:38 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

You do realize you're explaining your perspective to people who will gladly leave their linen on and ask their guests to put their own linen on top, sleep in it, and then strip the outer linen, so they don't need to be busy prepping needs pre and post hosting?
Speechless

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:41 pm

amother Azure wrote:

It's possible they were looking for a bathroom and opened up the door not realizing it was a bedroom. But yes, people usually lock doors to rooms they specifically don't want guests opening. Even in rentals.
I've had guests but never a bad experience. That said, nobody who asked me has been pushy, because that's sort of a warning sign. Very polite requests, no overstepping boundaries.

so count yourself lucky
many can do everything right and it goes right...all up to Hashem and we don't "blame the victim" for the times it doesn't go well

we have had many many guests over many years and if you host or lend your house often enough there is usually no such thing as a perfect track record

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:42 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

You're location is important because I want to know where this is so unheard of and "gauche" ?
As I have posted I have family all over the US and ey who have allowed others to use their empty homes and have had their neighbors graciously lend theirs.

It's ok to be personally not comfortable with hosting. But to say it's unheard of?

So curious, Where are you from?

amother

Ultramarine

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:45 pm

Rubies wrote:

I am confused by your response LOL

Do you think my perspective is strange - I can't imagine having people sleep on my linens without changing them and washing them.

The thought of coming home to a home that has been inhabited by strangers just creeps me out because I wouldn't feel clean in it until it had been thoroughly cleaned.

Perhaps that is my level of suspicious - would people actually bother to use THEIR linens. And I don't know but there are enough people who seem to have lower hygienic standards than I find to be acceptable - changing sheets every six months or having one hand towel or no soap in the bathrooms to wash hands. I am not at all saying that any imamothers posting have that kind of low level but how do I know what someone actually does when they think no one knows?

imorethanamother

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:49 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

I don't know anyone who lends their house to a stranger when they aren't home. They do host friends and family WHO THEY WANT TO SEE and obviously they (and I) are don't measure out the toothpaste - don't try to score a point by being ridiculous.
.

Hi. Welcome. Nice to meet you. I do this all the time. You’re welcome to come stay with us if you are an active member if klal Yisroel.

Toothpaste and orange juice are free, as is the thermostat setting, and any closet doors you feel like opening. Except for the dungeon. That’s off limits. Temporarily.

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:50 pm

Rubies wrote:

That was my post.

If you read my posts I have prepped and not prepped.

I've stayed in homes that have been prepped and not prepped.

It's ok to not want to prep and clean up. You are not always up to it. You do not need to decline because of it.
You tell the neighbor your conditions, you want a cleaning crew to come before and after, you want linen brought. Sometimes they'll say it's not worth it, but usually they're grateful as I am for all the times people have opened their homes to me and my family.

And again, I understand people who don't want to host. Op and everyone else should not do it if she's uncomfortable. But the people saying they've never heard of it?

Rubies

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:51 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

I am confused by your response LOL

There was a comment a few pages back from someone who has guests and does as mentioned. Essentially sleeping on linen that has been slept on by a stranger.

I'm with you. I believe hosting without a separate guest room is more common in certain communities.

I don't know anyone that does so without a separate guest room, bathroom (and entrance?)

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:54 pm

Op asked if her comfort level is ok.
Think you got your answer Op.
Hachnasas Orchim is a big mitzvah.
Like all chesed everyone gives in their own way. Sometimes some things are easier for some people.
We have learned to stretch while understanding that if we can't do something then if it is meant to be someone else will be able to do it B'Ezras Hashem comfortably.
Hosting while home is certainly different than when not.
Even then there may be times that we can say regretfully that it is not going to work for us at this time.

Rubies

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:55 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

Oh, so she literally was explaining her perspective to you.

You are both coming from different planets in terms of personal comfort and standards of baseline hygiene.
Regardless of who's right, wrong or relatively normal, both of you have baselines that are so far apart you'll never see eye to eye.

Rubies

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 4:58 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Would you feel comfortable sharing a mitzvah that you find extremely hard to do? I'm very curious.

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Sep 19 2022, 5:14 pm

Rubies wrote:

I said I understand dark greens perspective and all the others who don't want to host. I respect that sensitivity.

I am commenting on her saying she never heard of it. My question is where is this unheard of in the frum world?

Yeah. The Frei and my aino yehudei coworkers have very little familiarity with it. But where is this "unheard of" in the frum world?

You can caution someone against it with concerns I admit are valid without making them feel it's an "unheard of" thing to do.

Rubies, you're saying you never heard of this either?

Just curious where these places are.

And where people host for simchas who live there?

I've stayed in everything from empty mansions to empty rundown apartments in many parts of the US. Also in guest rooms and basements with the host home. I've done this for sumchas but also yom tov. Even when I wasn't in an empty house, usually somebody was. (Big spread out oot family).