Does your HF autistic bar mitzva boy go to Shul

amother

Wed, Oct 19 2022, 6:08 pm

My son is a sweet boy however he simply cannot go to Shul it’s way too hard for him to daven for more than a few minutes, in to sit to be around a lot of people. He has trouble being in crowded situations. We’ve tried finding different shuls but basically it’s a real uphill battle. I’m wondering if anyone can relate. How much does your autistic bar mitzvah boy go to Shul? Do you push or leave it. It also feels quite embarrassing for me as some of the other kids in the neighborhood ask why he doesn’t go to Shul. He looks and basically acts normal but nobody knows he is on the spectrum. His older brothers wish he’d go with them.

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 4:04 am

amother OP wrote:

I have a HF autistic son, and I’m trying to say this as gently as I can. If your bar mitzvah son honestly has an issue with going to shul, and he can’t sit and Daven for more than a few minutes, I’m going to wager that the other kids in the neighborhood know what’s going on. They’re asking you to spell it out for them. This is not a “nobody knows anything” situation. He’s probably having other issues at school, and high school will need to be very different from where his brothers went. What does his rebbe say about how he davens in the beis medrash?

My HF autistic son went to shul. He spaced out and went late and didn’t love being there for hours, but he was there.

I think one of the hardest things we mothers can face is the realization that we aren’t fooling anyone. Kids pick up very quickly when something is amiss. I had to face it. And it’s important to face it because that’s when we get the help we actually need.

You can shop around to as many shuls as you want, but what you’re going to need is a special needs situation that understands him. Maybe they have groups for ASD children. Maybe we can ask a behaviorist to go with him. Maybe you can ask a supervisor behaviorist for tips.

I also ask you to screw up every ounce of your courage and not let this embarrass you. You can’t afford that. Your son needs intervention, and better now than later. Please please please trust me on this. It’s either now or later, it doesn’t just go away.

amother

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 5:54 am

What intervention. I am not going the aba route anymore. What exactly can I do. Can't pick him up and plunk him in a seat. Don't want to go the reward or punishment method. Obviously can't force

I simply talk about the benefits to him of davening, being part of the community, the connection to hashem egc. We talk calmly and he hears but bottom line it's a struggle.

What else can I do. Do I accept the situation or is there something I am missng?

amother

Valerian

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 6:08 am

I have 2 young men with HFA.

The younger one (now 16) was diagnosed before age 3, received tons of intervention. He didn't go to shul often, couldn't sit. If there were other kids around and playing, there would sometimes be social issues. When he was 12, he was going more, but rarely in the room for davening. He'd say he needed the bathroom, then he'd go outside. Tefillin were a big sensory challenge. So was switching from a polo shirt to a button down. We held him back when he was little, so his bar mitzvah was one of the first in his grade. We really tried to encourage rather than insist. For a while around his bar mitzvah, I went to shul every morning so I could remind him to go back inside if he disappeared.

He had a wonderful 8th grade rebbe, and BH by the end of that year, he had really turned around. It started him on an amazing path, and he's continued to grow. Now, he's the first one out of the house, is super serious about getting to davening on time, and is the last to leave, because he's taking it so seriously. I still have some concerns about him socially -- he rarely talks to anyone, and, on Shabbos, runs out and comes home as soon as the final kaddish is done. But BH BH, we have so much to be happy with.

My older one wasn't diagnosed until his 20's, never got good help. When he was younger, we encouraged shul but didn't push. He has all kinds of other issues with screen addiction, anxiety and depression, so it's hard to pinpoint a single cause, but he rarely sets foot in shul, doesn't put on tefillin regularly, and then feels bad about himself.

amother

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 6:23 am

TY - so again I am a bit confused as to what intervention you are referring to. I talk to a therapist on a weekly basis and he guides me with my son. He is not specialized in autism. He is into charts and rewards. None of that works and I am not willing to go that route. When you say your older one did not get diagnosed etc. and now struggles what exactly did you do with your younger one that makes him go. I love your post but I am getting anxious that I am not doing more but what more is there?

At age 4 my son went to a special school but was then mainstreamed. Yes he goes to minyan in school and in fact his rebbi says he is doing fine. But anything to do with shul in our neighborhood for shabbos or chol hamoed or yom tov he cannot go. The shul is crowded and there is no room to hang out but we really have no option on that end.

What else should I be doing?

amother

Chambray

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 7:02 am

OP I really get you.
There is only one way forward that I know of and that is to get him a job of some sort in the shul. Organizing the sefarim, straightening benches, folding taleisim - no matter what. If he has a concrete reason to be there, it will be easier for him to go.

Please don't make this about you. It's not about what you should be doing. It's about his difficulty. You have done what you need to do.
What I would strongly recommend is a therapist who specializes in high functioning autism in teen boys. It's a very specific way of doing things. Charts and rewards can be counterproductive with these kids.

amother

Snowdrop

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 7:29 am

My husband doesn't go to shul often.

You have to understand it's not because he doesn't want to. It's just like forcing a kid who has a phobia of crowds to go to a festival.

Work on the positive side, try to find a shul he will like. My husband like something small, where people say hello and the davening isn't shlepped out. He doesn't like talking during davening, nor too much singing. He isn't a morning person either. He recently discovered a new small minyan nearby and has been going every shabbos now! He loves it. He loved simchas Torah and the yomim noraim there too.

I'm so grateful! He works in the afternoon and evening so it's really hard for him to wake up at 7/8 when he feels he can wake up at 9am. There's no minyans at 9am.

This may change though when my baby gets older, we have more kids, and the household is awake earlier.

LovesHashem

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 7:35 am

amother Tangerine wrote:

You can shop around to as many shuls as you want, but what you’re going to need is a special needs situation that understands him. Maybe they have groups for ASD children. Maybe we can ask a behaviorist to go with him. Maybe you can ask a supervisor behaviorist for tips.

I also ask you to screw up every ounce of your courage and not let this embarrass you. You can’t afford that. Your son needs intervention, and better now than later. Please please please trust me on this. It’s either now or later, it doesn’t just go away.

What intervention? You make it sound like going to shul is as essential as holding down a job.

He should try various shuls but if he really doesn't like anything, even a small minyan or shteibel it's not the end of the world.

What do you mean by a group? I've never heard of any recourse, groups or anything for HF autistics in frum communities. What's a special needs situation? He isn't a nonverbal kid that needs to be babysitted. He won't fit into anything made for kids with special needs that can't function on their own.

amother

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 7:38 am

Ty snowdrop- I appreciate the post. I just keep reading threads on imamother talking about interventions and I'm truly getting more and more anxious, worked up and ready to cry. When people write in that they did interventions when their kids were younger and now they are well adjusted etc. I feel frustrated that nothing worked. Yes - we've done (paid out of pocket at great effort) for speech, OT, regular therapy, coaching for me, and like I said he went when he was younger to a special school at which point he was mainstreamed. What more? We've tried ABA that was terrible for him and I am not willing to do anything with reward/punishment. My focus is positive loving and nothing with force. But now maybe I should be pushing more? I just don't know- I need a hug.

amother

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 11:38 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Ty- I was also wondering. How much intervention is needed? How much should I "force" this issue.

amother

Chambray

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 11:57 am

amother OP wrote:

Please, please this is not about what you did or didn't do. The person who posted that early intervention worked for her son had siyata dishmaya. She didn't have a "better" route nor is she a better mother. She was given a gift that whatever she did helped.

I could send you a hug. I can lend you a shoulder to cry on or a punch bag to punch. But really, the biggest gift I can give you is the realization that while we have to do our best in chinuch, the end results are not in our hands.

You've done your best and it's a good best.
Now you need to daven and trust that Hashem will help.

And you need to give your son the space to get to where he needs to be, to use his potential in the right way, to get where he needs to go to without letting other people's experiences throw you sideways.

You're doing great!

amother

Snowdrop

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 1:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

No ABA. That's horrible.

The only thing I'd say is to have him go to therapy so he can learn to be more flexible and communicate his needs. Insteas of him saying I hate shul, learning to say "Shul is very sensory overwhelming for me, and its very painful and difficult to go because of that" teach him to learn to find accomadations, and find ways to work with the world around him. "I have to go to shul because it's Yom kipur and I really want to, so what can we do to make it easier for me?" discuss ways to cope, maybe a certain seat, leaving early, etc.

Whoever says their kids are fully mainstreamed doesn't mean they fully are lime everyone else. Our brains work differently. You can't just get rid of autism. You can learn how to maneuver your way through this world, what you are supposed to do and say, but your brain will always see the world differently. And that's okay!

Hashem made me autistic and I'm so blessed to be able to see this world differently. There's so many amazing and beautiful traits I have because I'm autistic.

LovesHashem

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 1:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

Ty- I was also wondering. How much intervention is needed? How much should I "force" this issue.

He doesn't need an intervention. He needs care and love and therapy to be able to vocalize his needs and learn to manage his needs with the world's expectations and find a balance of what he is truly capable of.

Important to push yourself but also to recognize when you've had enough.

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Oct 20 2022, 2:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

Ok. To everyone that’s saying why insist he go to shul, I’ll say that any therapist worth their salt will take cultural climate into consideration for a child’s goals and life skills. You, OP, created this post because your son’s absence from shul is bothering you and the other siblings. If this is important to you, it’s important to work out successful strategies.

I’m also getting a wonky picture here. On one hand you say you tried ABA and it was horrible, but then you say that it was ten years ago because he was 4 when he mainstreamed to another school. Like how long ago did you last attempt data driven methodology?

You also say your son can’t cope with sitting, he can’t handle any shul in your neighborhood, crowded or not, but somehow has absolutely no problem sitting all day at school and davening there.

No one at ABA punishes anyone. And reward is something that motivates literally all of us. I’m not at work right now because I love it, I’m rewarded for doing it. I earn money. Your son can be motivated too, but you have to find the right one.

You sound like you’re paying a therapist to talk to you about how to handle him, but this therapist has no experience with autistic children. Find a BCBA and use someone like that instead. It worked tremendously with my 16 year old to create life skill goals and find ways to motivate him to attain them. It’s life changing with the right person.