S/o minhagim being taken too far.

watergirl

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:18 am

amother OP wrote:

Did you read this ami living? The part where girls were telling of their interesting, and different minhagim.

The one that they can't use any plastics, not even plastic machinery got me! This is religious ocd!! It's insanity.

I can't speak to minhagim or whatever because I'm a BT so we are the first generation to establish anything in our family. I admit I don't understand a lot of the pesach minhagim, and when I married my husband (also a BT), his minhagim were very strict - but he called his rav on his own after our first pesach when he saw how hard it all was for me the year before and his rav told him there is no reason for us to be doing all of that and as it took away from everyone's simchas hachag to drop it.

We are very careful to make sure our kids know the things we do are because we like it that way and it is in no way a minhag.

Purim time someone here mentioned she was giving her husband a mm, and I loved that idea so I did it also. Someone else mentioned here to be clear it is not to be yotze any mitzvah, it's just for fun. So I made one for my husband and used it as a chinuch opportunity in a few ways; to show the kids it's nice to think of your spouse, and to remind them this is not halacha, a mitzvah, or a minhag, and that we don't make new minhagim.

I have a tradition on pesach to make a certain item the second the kitchen is turned over (not the literal second, but it's the first thing I make). It's a tradition, NOT a minhag. And I made the difference clear to my kids. One of my sons said this year that he hopes his wife will do this also and I told him it's good if she will and it's good if she is not interested - both are good! And they can do their own thing.

In this son's class, his rebbe asked the kids to share their interesting pesach customs, NOT minhagim. IE, fun things they do at the seder. Another great chinuch opportunity to show each family has their things, but these things are not minhagim.

I've said this on here many times before. People have lost the concept and the understanding of that is halacha, what is minhag, what is "done", and what is a "sensitivity", etc. and it's a shame.

I did not read the Ami but I am willing to bet the person who said they don't use plastics as a minhag was conflating the meaning and really she meant preference - but she has no idea it's just a preference because the difference was never made clear to her.

amother

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:27 am

watergirl wrote:

This is so nice! Exactly my point. It's not halacha or minhagim, most of the time it's narishkeit.
The reason was because they didn't have plastics years ago, no tablecloths etc. I wonder if they have running water, drive cars and have electricity at home. They didn't have that years ago either!

amother

Raspberry

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:27 am

There's this story of a man going to his rebbe complaining his wife is not bending over backwards to accommodate all his chumros for Pesach. He wanted her to make most things from scratch etc etc. And she just wasn't willing or able to.

The rebbe asked the man if he makes his own matzo and wine to which he responded in the negative "because those are almost impossible to make on your own" .

The rebbe strongly told him " the things that are your responsibility you outsource but you expect your wife to do everything else?"

Side point:
I grew up with many chumros/minhagim/ customs that my husband's family doesn't have. My husband doesn't mind if I want to keep them but only until it affects anyone negatively. The is still a mitzvah of simchas yomtov on Pesach too!

amother

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:29 am

Amelia Bedelia wrote:

I've heard of others who don't use plastic at all on Pesach, so apparently it's pretty common.
The one that I thought was strange was the one in which the family used tomatoes only for karpas because of a recent ancestor who did not like any other vegetables.

Whilst that's only strange because it's not the norm, it's actually even easier than peeling, cutting and boiling potatoes so that's okay.
Why no plastic? Absurd. I don't think it's common at all.

amother

Candycane

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:34 am

amother OP wrote:

Whilst that's only strange because it's not the norm, it's actually even easier than peeling, cutting and boiling potatoes so that's okay.
Why no plastic? Absurd. I don't think it's common at all.

Just because you don’t do it doesn’t mean it’s absurd.
We don’t use plastic. Not tablecloth or container or anything else that touches food ( a plastic knife handle is ok)
The reason is because they use cornstarch when they make it. Or at least that’s what I was told

watergirl

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:36 am

Amelia Bedelia wrote:

This illustrates my point beautifully and also I'm questioning the people who review the Ami before they publish it.

The tomato thing is not a minhag, it's a thing they did to be sensitive to ONE family member who had a preference of food. I wonder if they asked their rav if they can create a new minhag and have everyone keep it, or if they just went with it.

I bet if anyone asked their daas torah if they can create a new minhag, the answer would be no, that's not what we do.

Look, I get it - my MIL has a serious issue with mushrooms (apparently her father "abused" her with mushrooms, long and convoluted story) and she gets very hurt and angry if any dish in her presence had mushrooms. She claimed for years she was deathly allergic to even the smell of them. We all bent over backwards to accommodate her until the time when there was something that looked good, so she simply picked out the mushrooms and was fine (and we were all really mad). Now she still gets mad if I make something with mushrooms because that means I'm not catering to her whims and preferences - she loves drama. What we DIDN'T do is create a "minhag" that we don't eat mushrooms.

NotInNJMommy

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:38 am

Amelia Bedelia wrote:

I make charoses with almonds, not walnuts. Because I don't like the taste of walnuts, and it turns out this year, when I did make it with walnuts, my kids didn't like it either (and they generally don't dislike walnuts). So I did joke that I should stick to my "minhag" of using almonds, but I will be careful to be clear what that means and doesn't mean...

WitchKitty

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:43 am

The equivalent of Binah in Hebrew, Carat, had an article a couple of weeks before Pesach which was an interview with the wife of some rebbe, maybe Shomrei Emunim? Or something similar. She was describing how she scrubs the ceiling for Pesach. And cleans and covers her kitchen but then uses a temporary kitchen in the bedroom. And kashers her own chickens for Pesach in a special never-touched-chometz room. And doesn't trust her daughters to help. Etc..
Then the next week there was a page with the title 'basic halachos of cleaning for Pesach'. I thought they must have gotten to many letters, but, no. The first 'halacha' I read was cleaning the light switches. After that I stopped reading.

I'm all for minhagim. My husband's family have less chumras than my parents Pesach, and I find that using so many ingredients spoils the fresh taste of the food you made all from scratch. But some people are just Banging head

scintilla

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:43 am

amother OP wrote:

Did you read the ami living? The part where girls were telling of their interesting, and different minhagim.

The one that they can't use any plastics, not even plastic machinery got me! This is religious ocd!! It's insanity.

Women are falling apart enough over making pesach, men shouldn't be making it harder for their wives by forcing on them crazy hard chumras. The kids suffer too!

Who says it's the men? I'm so tired of this attitude. I love my Pesach minhagim, they seem restrictive on the outside and they do take extra work but they're my mesorah and I love them, AND we have delicious food the entire Pesach. No one is forcing it on me and I personally resent the insinuation that I don't value these minhagim myself and fully buy into the whole system. My kids are just fine, especially considering that I and everyone else I know in my community is not strict with kids until they're a little older.

Also, big difference between chumros and minhagim. Don't conflate the two.

And it's quite rude to call someone else's family/religious group mesorah 'insanity'. None of Judaism really makes sense when you think about it. Our ancestors didn't have time to bake their bread so now we don't eat anything with flour for 8 days?? Sounds pretty extreme!! We do it because it's our beautiful precious mesorah and if you don't like it, don't become Chabad or whatever group/family doesn't do plastic.

Basically just respect please.

watergirl

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:51 am

scintilla wrote:

If you are getting into the nitty gritty of what is a chumrah, what is minhag, what is mesorah, and what is HALACHA, and then bringing in the example of why we eat matzah - no, we do not do this because it's mesorah. We do not eat bread, and we eat matzah because it's a mitzvah d'Oraisa (it's an eid, not a chok, not a mishpat).

Mitzvos d'Oraisa have a completely different reason than any other thing we do. PLEASE do not conflate a mitzvah d'Oraisa with a chumrah/minhag/mesorah, it's very dangerous.

amother

Tanzanite

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:52 am

NotInNJMommy wrote:

I learned not to criticize pesach minhagim, etc. and also I learned pesach is a yom tov to be enjoyed/not everyone even in the same household needs to keep all the same stringencies, and it isn't a mitzvah to do anything as part of a "I'm more machmir/chassidishe/shtark (insert whatever word applies depending on community)" contest--which yes, some people do approach pesach (and other aspects of Torah life) with.

Yes, this!

PinkFridge

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:52 am

DrMom wrote:

Let's take a Yom Tov meant to celebrate freedom from bondage and ruin it with millions of restrictions. Hooray

It's not so much the freedom from as much as freedom to. Freedom to serve Hashem and yes, that comes with rules.
It's interesting and telling that the first mitzvah we got was kiddush hachodesh. Slaves have no discretionary time. No control whatsoever of their time. We were no longer slaves and could control our time. So what's the first thing we do with this new freedom? Use it to serve Hashem.
Disclaimer: I'm Litvish and my mesorah is to use products with reliable hechsherim. And all sorts of non-food stuff, as per established kashrus organizations with reputable rabbanim behind them.

scintilla

Tue, Apr 11 2023, 8:55 am

watergirl wrote:

You are correct. However you misunderstood my point there. I was bringing in matza to show how when you think about it, many many things we do as Jews don't really make sense and you can call it all 'insanity', including the mitzvah d'oraisa of eating matza. I'm not using it as an example of either a chumra or minhag.